New Copper Band Butterfly suddenly spending most of its time in a corner

[EthanHawaii]

Hi, I picked up a CBB from my LFS two days ago and when I added it to my tank it was acting normal in about 5 minutes. I fed the tank the next day and it ate a piece of mysis but wasn't totally going crazy for it. It was pecking stuff off the rocks the whole day so I wasn't worried.

And this morning it was acting normally and pecking at stuff on the rocks. and when I fed it it was really excited but didn't seem to eat much. And now it's in the back bottom corner of the tank swimming against the glass. So I'm just wondering if I should be worried or if this is normal and it's just getting used to the tank?

I guess I find it weird that it was acting normal until now. I should mention that at the LFS it seemed to spend a lot of time in one corner of the tank, though pecking at stuff and eating mysis like crazy. It is very healthy other than for a few white tiny spots on its fins but they didn't get worse at the LFS and aren't worse now.

Thanks

 

[shaginwagon13]

Hi, I picked up a CBB from my LFS two days ago and when I added it to my tank it was acting normal in about 5 minutes. I fed the tank the next day and it ate a piece of mysis but wasn't totally going crazy for it. It was pecking stuff off the rocks the whole day so I wasn't worried.

And this morning it was acting normally and pecking at stuff on the rocks. and when I fed it it was really excited but didn't seem to eat much. And now it's in the back bottom corner of the tank swimming against the glass. So I'm just wondering if I should be worried or if this is normal and it's just getting used to the tank?

I guess I find it weird that it was acting normal until now. I should mention that at the LFS it seemed to spend a lot of time in one corner of the tank, though pecking at stuff and eating mysis like crazy. It is very healthy other than for a few white tiny spots on its fins but they didn't get worse at the LFS and aren't worse now.

Thanks

CBB are known to be hard to keep in a tank. Sure some people have managed, but the vast majority have failed. This is the result of the method of catching the fish, to possible injury to its 'mouth' while in transport, to getting it accustomed to aquarium foods.

Those 'white spots' might be Ich or another fish disease that might be resulting your CBB discomfort and stress. When fish are stressed they act abnormally and usually stop eating. I'm not sure what your level of expertise/or what resources you have available but I would take the CBB out and quarantine.

 

[EthanHawaii]

New Copper Band Butterfly suddenly spending most of its time in a corner

CBB are known to be hard to keep in a tank. Sure some people have managed, but the vast majority have failed. This is the result of the method of catching the fish, to possible injury to its 'mouth' while in transport, to getting it accustomed to aquarium foods.



Those 'white spots' might be Ich or another fish disease that might be resulting your CBB discomfort and stress. When fish are stressed they act abnormally and usually stop eating. I'm not sure what your level of expertise/or what resources you have available but I would take the CBB out and quarantine.

Ok thanks, I just fed a tiny bit now and it ate a few pieces so that's good to see. IMO to quarantine the fish would just add stress, I only have two other fish in the 75 Gallon system so it is basically already a quarantine. Water is perfect.

Here's an image of the fish. It's really hard to see the spots on the fins.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shaginwagon13]

Ok thanks, I just fed a tiny bit now and it ate a few pieces so that's good to see. IMO to quarantine the fish would just add stress, I only have two other fish in the 75 Gallon system so it is basically already a quarantine. Water is perfect.

The purpose of quarantine is to be able to monitor and view the fish/coral and treat for diseases/parasites either proactively or after its discovered.

If the 'white spots' you mentioned on the CBB is Ich, it really makes no difference now because you have it in your main system so the only way to get rid of it is quarantine all the fish, and leave the display tank fishless for 72 days. Whether you choose to do this, or no, is your choice I suppose.

Here is a good link you can use to learn how to keep and help a CBB thrive in your system:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1492696

 

[EthanHawaii]

The purpose of quarantine is to be able to monitor and view the fish/coral and treat for diseases/parasites either proactively or after its discovered.



If the 'white spots' you mentioned on the CBB is Ich, it really makes no difference now because you have it in your main system so the only way to get rid of it is quarantine all the fish, and leave the display tank fishless for 72 days. Whether you choose to do this, or no, is your choice I suppose.



Here is a good link you can use to learn how to keep and help a CBB thrive in your system:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1492696

Isn't ich in all Aquarium's to start with? I will have to look into this but I've heard everywhere that if fish are healthy they can get ride of ich by themselves and other healthy fish just won't get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shaginwagon13]

Isn't ich in all Aquarium's to start with? I will have to look into this but I've heard everywhere that if fish are healthy they can get ride of ich by themselves and other healthy fish just won't get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No Ich is not in all aquariums to start with, it needs to be introduced by either an invested fish, coral, invert or contaminated water.

You treat fish with medication (copper), hyposalinity, tank transfer method. Ich will completely die if your display tank is left foshless for 72 days.

No fish can get rid of Ich. Healthy fish have a thick slime coat that does not allow the Ich to attach. However any change or stress to the fish at all, will 99% of the time result in an outbreak.

 

[MondoBongo]

Isn't ich in all Aquarium's to start with? I will have to look into this but I've heard everywhere that if fish are healthy they can get ride of ich by themselves and other healthy fish just won't get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

no, it is not. ich is an animal with a discreet life cycle. it is not always present.

however, those spots may not be ich. when my CBB is stressed out, he tends to like to hide in the corner, and will sometimes break out in some fuzzy white lumps. mostly on his fins. i'm not 100% what it is, but near as i can guess it is lymphocytosis.

ich presents differently, being like small specks of salt. but if yours are like mine, then they are larger white "lumps"

i would strongly advise quarantine in the future. there are nastier things than ich out there. it also gives the fish a chance to get comfortable and start eating with no competition, before being transferred in to a tank with other fish and lots going on.

if he's nibbling, that's half the battle. you can try enticing him with some live food as well. mine loves worms, and a lot of fish specialty stores will stock live white worms or live black worms. grocery store clams pried open and mushed up a little bit sometimes interest them too. pieces of scallops (smaller than a pencil eraser) are another thing mine likes.

unfortunately mine also loves the taste of LPS. oh well.

good luck.

 

[EthanHawaii]

No Ich is not in all aquariums to start with, it needs to be introduced by either an invested fish, coral, invert or contaminated water.



You treat fish with medication (copper), hyposalinity, tank transfer method. Ich will completely die if your display tank is left foshless for 72 days.



No fish can get rid of Ich. Healthy fish have a thick slime coat that does not allow the Ich to attach. However any change or stress to the fish at all, will 99% of the time result in an outbreak.

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EthanHawaii]

no, it is not. ich is an animal with a discreet life cycle. it is not always present.



however, those spots may not be ich. when my CBB is stressed out, he tends to like to hide in the corner, and will sometimes break out in some fuzzy white lumps. mostly on his fins. i'm not 100% what it is, but near as i can guess it is lymphocytosis.



ich presents differently, being like small specks of salt. but if yours are like mine, then they are larger white "lumps"



i would strongly advise quarantine in the future. there are nastier things than ich out there. it also gives the fish a chance to get comfortable and start eating with no competition, before being transferred in to a tank with other fish and lots going on.



if he's nibbling, that's half the battle. you can try enticing him with some live food as well. mine loves worms, and a lot of fish specialty stores will stock live white worms or live black worms. grocery store clams pried open and mushed up a little bit sometimes interest them too. pieces of scallops (smaller than a pencil eraser) are another thing mine likes.



unfortunately mine also loves the taste of LPS. oh well.



good luck.

Ok, I've read online that they can get white specs if stressed so hopefully that's what it is.

I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out if you should or shouldn't Quarantine and I've just decided not to with this fish because I wouldn't have a big enough tank, and it would definitely stress the fish out more in my case because I just don't have enough rock and things to help the fish feel comfortable.

I went to the store to pick up some live clams but decided not to because all they had were live saltwater manila clams and I'm just worried that they could have contagious parasites?

Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shaginwagon13]

Ok, I've read online that they can get white specs if stressed so hopefully that's what it is.

I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out if you should or shouldn't Quarantine and I've just decided not to with this fish because I wouldn't have a big enough tank, and it would definitely stress the fish out more in my case because I just don't have enough rock and things to help the fish feel comfortable.

Those white spots are most likely Ich, and they appear when the fish are stressed because their slime coats get slightly thinner which allow the disease to take hold. Lymphocytosis is also a possibility, however they usually appear slightly larger and only go away after constant improvements in water quality and immune system boosters and high quality foods.

Whether you quarantine or not is a choice you have to make. I personally do it now because the risk of introducing a diseased fish and killing my entire tank when you have enough time and money invested in a system is no longer worth it. Very honestly, I have never been successful with keeping and medicating fish in quarantine so I pay someone to do it for me. I don't have a job where I am able to constantly monitor medication and water parameters in my QT tank.

 

[EthanHawaii]

New Copper Band Butterfly suddenly spending most of its time in a corner

Those white spots are most likely Ich, and they appear when the fish are stressed because their slime coats get slightly thinner which allow the disease to take hold. Lymphocytosis is also a possibility, however they usually appear slightly larger and only go away after constant improvements in water quality and immune system boosters and high quality foods.



Whether you quarantine or not is a choice you have to make. I personally do it now because the risk of introducing a diseased fish and killing my entire tank when you have enough time and money invested in a system is no longer worth it. Very honestly, I have never been successful with keeping and medicating fish in quarantine so I pay someone to do it for me. I don't have a job where I am able to constantly monitor medication and water parameters in my QT tank.

Thanks, today it's been mixed. It spends most of the time in the corner but ventures out once in a while. It is eating.
I am going to get some Manila Clams today and see if it will eat them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MondoBongo]

Ok, I’ve read online that they can get white specs if stressed so hopefully that’s what it is.

I’ve spent a lot of time trying to figure out if you should or shouldn’t Quarantine and I’ve just decided not to with this fish because I wouldn’t have a big enough tank, and it would definitely stress the fish out more in my case because I just don’t have enough rock and things to help the fish feel comfortable.

I went to the store to pick up some live clams but decided not to because all they had were live saltwater manila clams and I’m just worried that they could have contagious parasites?

Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i'm not familiar with those kind of clams. typically i have just bought one or two of the clams from the meat counter. often some type of little neck or quahog around here. might just be where i am at geographically.

i QT everything wet, and i suggest others do as well. QT doesn't have to be huge, since you're only keeping the animals in there for a relatively short amount of time. i used 10g tanks to QT my CBB. did my standard TTM rotation, then placed him in my grow out system, which was a 20 long at the time for a few weeks. then in to the big pool he went.

a little QT up front saves lots of headaches down the line. it's also a great time to work with the new arrivals and try to get them accepting a variety of food. QT/grow out helps with this because they are usually the only fish there, and are able to explore new things without boisterous tank mates.

 

[shaginwagon13]

I QT everything wet, and i suggest others do as well.

Not to go off-topic but since diseases like Ich can come into your system from inverts, corals, ect. how do you qt inverts?

I can't see having snails in qt for 72 days but am I wrong to assume people don't do this? Inverts are also super sensitive to most medications like copper.

 

[Dmorty217]

Not to go off-topic but since diseases like Ich can come into your system from inverts, corals, ect. how do you qt inverts?

I can't see having snails in qt for 72 days but am I wrong to assume people don't do this? Inverts are also super sensitive to most medications like copper.

For corals if you remove the plug and give a good rinse in saltwater you will be fine, although there are plenty of other pests that can come in on corals. Something like a slug or shrimp/crab, same. Ich won't host or encyst on corals or shrimp/crabs so the swimming stage is what you're trying to avoid introducing into our tanks. For snails I scrub all surfaces of the shells and then rinse in saltwater or if I'm sure there is disease in the system they came from I rinse in freshwater. The snail method as I will call it is far from perfect but I have yet to have any disease arrive by snail. Disclaimer** I don't purchase snails often

 

[shaginwagon13]

For snails I scrub all surfaces of the shells and then rinse in saltwater

Smart idea..... what do you scrub with? And how aggressively?

Also, what do you do for shrimp?

 

[MondoBongo]

Not to go off-topic but since diseases like Ich can come into your system from inverts, corals, ect. how do you qt inverts?

I can't see having snails in qt for 72 days but am I wrong to assume people don't do this? Inverts are also super sensitive to most medications like copper.

i don't use copper for anything prophylactically. typically i do my additions in batches, with the exception of corals. corals i usually just remove frag plugs and dip. unless i am very concerned about where they're coming from.

my QT process is typically two stage. i will set up what i call grow out, which is a fully cycled system with a HOB filter, heater, and some old powerheads. this will stay set up as long as i need it. i cycle it ahead of time as you would a normal tank.

that is where i place inverts, and fish that have made it through the first stage of my QT, which is:

Tank Transfer Method, aka TTM. i run new fish through TTM, including two rounds of prazi (most of the time, delicate fish i will skip prazi), then once they're done with TTM they get a couple week (4 - 8 depending) stay in the grow out system.

i consider inverts low risk, which is why i usually just let them hang in the grow out tank for 4 - 8 weeks, unless i added a fish, then i reset the counter.

 

[Dmorty217]

Smart idea..... what do you scrub with? And how aggressively?

Also, what do you do for shrimp?

Just a scrub on all surfaces of the shell, nothing crazy but not lax either. Shrimp should be the same as corals or crabs, just a good rinse.

 

[EthanHawaii]

Thanks everyone for the help and info! I'm just wondering how someone would prepare clams that have just died for a Butterfly fish? Do you sterilize them? If so how? My local store has a mix of half live and half dead clams, and I'm just worried that these would infect my fish? They are Manila clams from Washington.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MondoBongo]

live clam, pop the shell open (i haven't been able to teach my CBB how to shuck them yet), mush the inside a little bit, and toss it in the tank.

fwiw live black worms and white worms should be readily taken as well.

 

[EthanHawaii]

live clam, pop the shell open (i haven't been able to teach my CBB how to shuck them yet), mush the inside a little bit, and toss it in the tank.

fwiw live black worms and white worms should be readily taken as well.

Awesome, I will try that right now.

Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk