New Deodronephthya sp. study group?

[dannyfromholland]

Mabey a small wooden stick (coctailstick?) could solve this, you just stick it into the foot off the coral and attach the stick with a rubberband
to a piece off rock.

cheers

danny

 

[mcox33]

been there done that doesn't work. But It will only take it a couple of days to attach to substrate and size doesn't matter. rock or frag size that is.

 

[Thurge]

I have been thinking about Jen's method ans I think I am going to try supergluing a strip of hosery to the side of the tank and then tucking the frag under it, with a piece of shell as a buffer to the nylon.

 

[Jens Kallmeyer]

HI Thurge

Please keep us informed. As I said, I have never tried with with Dendros, only with Lemnalia et al.
@ Danny: The toothpick is an almost sure death sentence for a Dendro. They will start rotting around the hole almost instantly. I lost two Dendros by this mistake.


Jens

 

[graveyardworm]

I was just reading alittle bit about ozone use, and a question came to mind. Is anyone attempting to keep dendros using ozone? Some of the pros and cons might be? Increased Oxygen? Lowered amounts of drifting live stuff which might be beneficial? Aids in removal of stuff which may be harmful?

 

[charles matthews]

I'd like to report some very interesting work that Jake Adams has undertaken and which I am supporting. Jake operates the coralite.com website, and is planning on attending graduate school in marine sciences at U.Sc.

Jake is going to be working with a dedicated tank for filming Dendronepnthya feeding behavior, using a device called a "mesoscope"- essentially a video microscope. He has already done some outstanding work on zooxanthellae.

We are going to be filming Dendro response to a variety of foods, filming polyp counts, and response to flow regimes. This work should be fascinating and we hope to present it at MACNA. In any event, watch the web site and you are welcome to continue to support our efforts at understanding husbandry of these animals.

I think Jake has very wisely chosen to work with the mesoscope; it will help close the gap between what aquarists can do and what can be learned. Consider assisting him in some way!

On a related front- it seems likely that the problems of dendro husbandry are similar to the problem of aquaculturing larvae, which need to be fed. Jake and I are going to be testing (at his site and at mine) colloidal larval shrimp feed from Epicore, as well as a probiotic product to discourage Vibrio.
This combination works well in shrimp growout ponds, apparently much better than without the probiotic.

I find that heavy feeding of dendros tends to foul the water- the skimmer collapses each time they are fed. My solution is to use a bare bottom tank for the dendros, and a rapid flow Chaeto filter which will take up ammonia without taking up particulates. That system is connected to a slow flow Chaeto sump with coral gravel. The slow flow sump is cleaned with a diatom filter and carbon once weekly to remove bacterial floc, and is then treated with a probiotic. I will add an iron/manganese supplement for the Chaeto, but will not use a skimmer.

Keep posted on the Coralite.com site to follow or participate.

Charles Matthews

 

[Fredfish]

coralite.com gets me to a stone products company.

Very cool to hear though. I am sure that your videos will yield some interesting results.

Fred

 

[graveyardworm]

I had the same problem with the link and tried some variations and found nothing.
I'm wondering if there's been any word regarding a new forum. While this thread is chugging along and gaining some interest it seems as though it would be more effective if people could post new threads and get alittle more personal attention.
Additionally it seems that this has been completely dominated by dendro which the title implies, but there are so many different nonphotosynthetic corals that deserve as much attention and study.

 

[Fredfish]

Hmm. A forum dedicated to encouraging people to buy and attempt to keep corals that many think should stay in the ocean. Bit of a hot potato that...

I am sure Charles will get back to us with a corrected web site.

I hope this thread keeps going. Perhaps as progress is made and opinions shift we will see a proper forum.

Fred

 

[Thurge]

10-15 years ago all corals were hard to keep.....


Jens Kallmeyer:
Get down with your bad self :celeb1: :celeb3: :celeb2: :bounce1: :bounce3: :bounce2: :thumbsup:
I haven't removed the piece of hosery (killing me self at WK and am scatterbrained enough as it is), but after 5 days, the piece I stuck to the side of the overflow is still pined beneth the hosery, and happily enflates with the MH comes on.
The only drawback I can see is that without a third hand i couldn't get a piece of shell between the dnedro and the hose so i will probably end up with a small piece of black nylon as part of the colony.
Note to self nest time at least try and match the colors up.


ps does anyone know if Jens is a guy of girl?
I was going to say "YOU GO ... " and thats about how far I got. not too sure if Jens is European or a funky girls name.

 

[Thurge]

I removed the piece of stocking and the frag has attached to the side. But there was tissue deterioration where it had been. It might be a case of being on too long, and if I had removed it after only two or three days, the frag may not have been stressed enough to break down.
All in all it does work.

 

[charles matthews]

My mistake- the link is coralite.net. Apologies!

I've ordered four dendros from Dick Perrin and had four sent to Jake Adams in South Carolina for mesoscope video. Some of my original batch survive at about ten months now- I have moved everything back into the 29 gal. tank and using the rest of the 450 gallons as a sump! I am aquiring more Tubastrea species as this does really well for me as companions to dendros and may aquaculture them through spawning; I also like chili corals and have two now that appear slightly different species or color morphs.

I'm feeding crushed Cyclop-eez, golden pearls, and granular yeast, about two to three good pinches of each three times daily and I grasp the Cyclop-eez between thumb and forefinger and rub it into a paste (three times daily). I have a Turbelle Stream 6002 on this tank (the big one, about 5000 gal/hr I think!) directed along the length of this 2-ft tank at one end, forming a circular pattern. There is a 3 inch crushed coral sand bed that manages to stay down in this current and has lots of bubbles in the substrate. I am beginning to think a coarse sand bed will take care of ammonia problems if the current is strong enougn and if may not need a rapid flow macroalgae filter. There is an overflow to the 450 gallon sump systems that is just a trickle. Temp is about 73-75F.

When I add heavy phyto, they seem to loose interest. The most vigorous feeding occurs with the zooplankton substitutes above. I no longer stir sand beds or squeeze sponges.

When the probiotics come in from Epicore, I will use it. I'm worried about Vibrio. My other system (55 gal w 55 gal sump) is being assembled but I would like some data from Jake before finalizing design.

I have been thinking about just using a Chaeto bed, Kent iron addition, no substrate, and a CO2 system to clean the water. Skimmers collapse with all this feeding. I still suspect that sand beds work for awhile but bacterial toxins get aggressive after awhile with all the nutrients.

 

[charles matthews]

One other thing. Regarding attachment, Dendros propagate naturally by branchlet dropping; they're really good at attaching. Just snip a small branch (the size of the last joint in a finger) off with a scizzors and put it on pebbles or shells in a bowl. Don't worry about flow, just gentle circulation until they attach in less than a week. They really like to attach to PVC, so you can drop them down a pvc ring and then turn it upside down and the piece will be inside the lip of the ring and you could conceivably glue this to the wall of the tank (haven't done it this way but plan to soon... let me know if it works- I know they like to be high in the tank, again possibly substrate toxins).

 

[charles matthews]

One other thing! Thurge- look at the attachment area. Dendros either look like they have been pulled from sand, or they grow out of rock or oyster shells. If there is sand stuck to the bottom, place it in a hole in a sand refugium in good current. Or, you can wedge it into a PVC pipe and fix the pipe somewhere- it if dies, save the PVC, there will be polyps on it!

If it is a rock attachment that has been ripped, I would personally cut it into branchlets and place them in a bowl with pebbles or pvc pieces (pvc might be even better).

 

[charles matthews]

dendros

dendros

One more thing!

if we were to get a forum, I agree with Graveyard that were we to get our own forum, we should broaden into a nonphotosynthetic forum. We are really dealing with the problem of keeping an ecosystem, and what we learn will be relevant to a number of creatures. Also, mesoscope videos of feeding behavior allow some real interaction between the academics and the rest of us- I suspect such a forum will go in the direction of husbandry methods for heterotrophs, as well as into specific techniques for species; and that the mesoscope video will be a fundamental tool of research for us.

I've sent Mary an email asking her to update us from the beginning- her comments contain a lot of experience and I was hoping to get her most recent views and observations.

 

[Herpervet]

I love the idea of a aposymbiotic forum. A great potential alternative to the high wattage energy hog systems in vogue today.

You mentioned the chili corals and I like them a lot too. Seem to be fairly hardy and like the cyclop-eez.

 

[Fredfish]

Thanks for the correction on the website charles. I would love to boy one of those oglevision things, but just don't have the cash. Seems like a very high quality instrument.

I am looking forward to the dendro feeding pics.

Herpervet, I wouldn't call the chili coral hardy, but is is less difficult than the dendroneptheas. I have had one in an unskimmed tank and it is surviving, but is by no means thriving. I am curious to hear your experience with this coral. Do you do regular target feeding with cyclopeez?

Fred

 

[Herpervet]

Thanks for the correction on the website charles. I would love to boy one of those oglevision things, but just don't have the cash. Seems like a very high quality instrument.

I am looking forward to the dendro feeding pics.

Herpervet, I wouldn't call the chili coral hardy, but is is less difficult than the dendroneptheas. I have had one in an unskimmed tank and it is surviving, but is by no means thriving. I am curious to hear your experience with this coral. Do you do regular target feeding with cyclopeez?

Fred

Mine is in an unskimmed tank with heavy phyto-feast feeding and target fed with cyclopeez once or twice a week but the tank gets cyclopeez daily also.

It has very nice polyp extension at night and seems to be growing although the size increase could be hydrostatic and not actual growth.

I have had it only a few months so my enthusiasm is quite premature. I do really like the look of the coral but it is bestviewed with a flashlight.

 

[Fredfish]

Mine seems to respond to phyto as well. My culture crashed a month ago and I have been too busy with work to get it going again. Since I stopped feeding phyto, the coral does not extend its polyps as much. I get polyp expansion starting in the early evening starting about 7:00pm.

Fred

 

[mcox33]

I'm fazing in 400 Watt MH lighting on my 90 gallon reef so far the MH lights are on for 4 hours a day and all seems to be well with the dendro, It is now in the bottom of the tank on a rock laying on the sand good current past it and seems to be fine. I also have small ones scattered though out my tank many of which just get fed when I target feed the other corals as they are small and not easily gotton to to target feed them.
but they seem to be doing very well as well.



I do use a protein skimmer and CO2 have been for almost a year now. This coming April mine will have been in my tank for 2 years. KOW. At this point we are at 20 months. It is smaller than it once was due to fragging itself by dropping it's branches while I was figuring out what made it happy and what made it sad.

When I first acquired it moving it even the slightest bit in the tank seemed to make it drop branches, but now it seems to be happy where ever it is. The last time it fell off it's shelf to the bottom of the tank I left it there as I knew I was getting the MH light system soon.

I seem to get better poylp extension when the MH are on than ever before. So I am beginning to think they grow in and under rocks because this protects them when they are small and then as they grow they extend out to the light, or can be moved to the light. Mine did spawn in my tank a few months after I got it and I think it will again soon as I see them tangling their branches together accassionally. I also think it is necessary to have 2 seperate colonies for them to spawn. JMO

Well that is all for now, I will try to follow this thread more closely again.


Mary