New Deodronephthya sp. study group?

Notice

Notice

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6214955#post6214955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mcox33



I do use a protein skimmer and CO2 have been for almost a year now.

Mary


Actually I do NOT use CO2. I use OZONE I guess I must have posted this when I was brain dead or asleep, could have been either. Sorry guys.
 
Now my 400 watt MH are coming on at 11:00 am and going off around 7:00pm

the 260 watts of power compac's come on at 8:00 am and go off at 10:00 pm

So far everything is fine with the dendros.

I am going to be building a diy canopy/light setup for my brother -in- law for christmas and that will keep me very busy for the next couple of weeks as I am also building the canopy. Once it is done, I will try to sit down and write a guide to keeping dendro's from my point of view and hope it helps others.

But that is something I want to put a lot of thought into, so I need to get the light project out of the way first, (as my BIL lives in another state.) I want to let him take it home with him when he comes for christmas so I do not have to ship it. Too heavy.
 
Waiting on pins and needles to hear all the details on Mary's methods.

Exciting to hear of your success Mary!

What color are your dendro's?

I'm sure all of us would LOVE to see pics of them.

cheers,

Pete
 
there are already pictures in this thread. I have a lot to do over the next few days. So it will take a while to post new pictures. I hate doing that.Ffirst I have to move them to a file. Then post them on my web page, then link them. time consuming
 
I have just been listening. It seemed like you guys wen't on vacation. Nice to see you're back at it. Back to listening. NICE thread!!

> barryhc :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6329949#post6329949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
I have just been listening. It seemed like you guys wen't on vacation. Nice to see you're back at it. Back to listening. NICE thread!!

> barryhc :)

Do you have Dendro's?
 
I don't have any yet. I will have to set-up a tank for them. I have to learn a lot more first, and this thread seems like the place to do that. That is why I'm just listening so far. There is much better information on them here, than I have seen elsewhere.

Thanks for the education. > barryhc :)
 
Mary, good to hear of your setup and updates. What are you feeding, how often and how much, to what size tank?

As you know, I am working with Jake Adams at coralite.net, who is filming dendro feeding behavior. I hope to have some information about their feeding responses to a variety of foods on film soon.

I am impressed with the shrimp industry and the problems they have overcome. Keeping non photosynthetic poolyps fed is much like the problem of keeping shrimp larvae. One major obstacle in commercial shrimp farming is the developent of pathogenetic bacteria, which I believe I am seeing as well. What happens for me is that I get excited about growth and feed too much, stimulating bacterial growth in the tank that is probably deleterious.

I suspect that we are now able to feed dendros (with oyster eggs, phyto, golden pearls, liquid shrimp larval diets) plenty- but cannot keep "old tank syndrome" from taking over.

My new system is a 55 gallon over a 55 gallon sump. The top will be bare bottom; the sump will be chaeto only (no substrate), possibly a co2 controller if needed, addition of iron, and will use a Vortex Diatom filter with carbon once/week to remove detritus. The flow through the 55 will be very slow, to allow settling of particles.

Does anyone have diving expericnce in viewing dendros? I have a wave2k that I may try again in this tank- dendros are typically said to project out into current. However, I suspect they are found in grottos where there is a to-and-fro motion as well. My laminar flow dendros tend to grow rather lobsized, into the flow, and this doesn't look normal. 12 hour alternating current may be more natural, but the wave2k has the ability to keep particles suspended.

Charles
 
You know I had never even noticed and I have been here almost since the beginning. Charles, What made you notice it?
 
I searched for the thread and it didn't come up under Dendronephthya.

Mary, you promised us some further details about your husbandry techniques!

I have some recent summary information of interest. I am working with Jake Adams (coralite.net) and he has taken some preliminary pictures ofdendros feeding. He is using Epicore brand liquid shrimp zoeal larvae feed, which is colloidal and disperses about 5-50 microns. We are going to be doing videomicroscopy of feeding behavior soon.

My 11 month old dendro had declined; I moved it back into the 29 gallon with a big Turbelle Stream and it looked even more miserable. I thought all was lost.

In desperation I took out my Eco-wheel algae scrubber, leaving a 2.5 foot cube tank with a huge air collar blowing up into the center of it (this is the airlift for the tank). I placed several harge handfuls of Chaetomorpha balls to tumble under the PC lights and placed this Dendro and a new one, as well as a Nepthyigorgia, in the bottom of the tank. the flow there is moderate, swirling, and is full of microbubbles as well as presumably algal leachates. I also put a moribund scleronepnthya rock (about five tiny colonies that had been closed for two weeks) in there).

Well- it looks like everything's expanded again!

So- what's going on?

My latest theory-corals that use zoozanthellae get a largae amount of their energy budget from the leachates of their symbionts- alcohols, sugars, various species of translocated carbon, amino acids.

OK. Now think about the Ecosystem method- is the polyp extension we see in these systems due to algal leachates? Are the polyps reaching for the same products they get from their endosymbionts?

Now, why don't Dendros make it in an Ecosystem? I think because sand and mud beds are competitive with filter feeders. Substrate greedily consumes particulates, reduces nitrates, accumulates phosphates, and produces bacterial warfare toxins.
I think dendros get "old tank sysdrome" very easily, similar to problems in raising shrimp larvae . They seem to do well, but the feeding introduces a bacterial bloom that is toxic to the dendros. Eventually, the bacteria grow more than the dendros do.

I am going to be working with a Chaeto-only sump and bare bottom. I think blowing the Chaeto around helps the polyps stayinterested in feeding. Mary, does my bacterial theory make any sense to you?

Charles
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6379446#post6379446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by charles matthews
Now, why don't Dendros make it in an Ecosystem? I think because sand and mud beds are competitive with filter feeders. Substrate greedily consumes particulates, reduces nitrates, accumulates phosphates, and produces bacterial warfare toxins.
I think dendros get "old tank sysdrome" very easily, similar to problems in raising shrimp larvae . They seem to do well, but the feeding introduces a bacterial bloom that is toxic to the dendros. Eventually, the bacteria grow more than the dendros do.

Charles

I am trying to just listen and learn, but I am trying to get my brain around the idea of bacterial "warfare toxins". Could you elaborate a little bit?

> Thanks > barryhc :)
 
actually yes it does as mine have always been interested in feeding when I use the old turkey baster on the rocks.

I also have very little sand in my tank and most of it has blown back between the rocks which are sitting on bare glass as well.
 
Mary, it could be very important that you have very little sand in your tank. It has been extremely well documented in the literature on prawn cultivation in commercial systems that Vibrio and other bacteria produce substances that are deleterious to larval development. They also note that ponds get old and have to be replaced, presumably because of limitations in material in the substrate.

As we know, there are a tremendous variety of creatures that live in substrates. They all grow exponentially. If they did not consume each other or otherwise limit each other's growth, the surface of the earth would soon be covered in bacteria. Bacterial growth, as far as I understand it, is limited by bacterial warfare to a great extent- overgrowth, secretion of digestive attacks, growth inhibitors, cell signalling- all kinds of chemical gunk gets put out. Most of this is presumably short range, and is metabolized quickly. However, in our small aquariums, temperature changes, salinity changes, a piece of food on the floor of the aquarium, a minor disturbance with fish digging, advective currents that change randomly- all create a riot of reshuffling of the bacterial populations.

As substrates age, they can put out nitrogen as a gas, but they can't put out phosphate and refractory ash products of metabolism. As in commercial prawn farmiing, substrates reach a limit where production starts to fall.

I believe, as we feed our tanks more, we will see these limits earlier. And I suspect what Mary is doing is going to be the answer- bare bottom tanks with algae filtration.

By the way, there is an OUTSTANDING discussion of plankton and sand bed advection in the third volume of Delbeek and Sprung- read it! My take- sand beds are competitive with filter feeders.
 
There hasnt been a post here in awhile so I thought I would reserect it, and since we dont have non-photosynthetic coral forum yet this may be the best place for my question.

I just purchased a suncoral because finally I have what I think is suitable place for it and a little extra dough, and it really looked as though it needed a home. Here's a pic.

44187100_1370-med.jpg


Its still acclimating there, at the LFS there was no polyp extension even after they tried to feed it, but I bought it anyway. It appears some of the polyps have died but for the most part it looks okay. should try to feed it as soon as it gets put in the QT or should I wait? What should I try first, I have frozen mysis, frozen brine, and some homemade frozen stuff which contains just about everything from selcon to DT's, and chopped shellfish ( sortof a shotgun feed)? Should I try putting some juice in first? Any help would be appreciated. Thank You
 
Graveyard...

I've had tons of success nursing Tubastrea sp. back to life over the years.

First thing -- they are predominantly nocturnal, so wait until the lights are out to try feeding.

2nd -- Try juice first with some selcon and DT's.

3rd -- They'll eat just about anything meaty once acclimated, and should stabilize pretty rapidly. If they are eating, but still waisting, then they are likely suffering from a pathogen attacking them internally ... not much you can do there.

Good luck, keep us posted!

--Sean--
 
Graveyard Hobby Experience: first saltwater started 11-07-03
Current Tanks: 90 gal mixed reef (2 URI VHO super actinic,2 250 watt blueline 14k),

Assumming that the blueline is MH, and that the sun coral will be in the tank with MH,

You might notice after the MH goes off, while your other lights are still on, that the sun polyps will start to come out. Mine do and that is usually when I feed them. About an hour after the MH goes off for the day.

I have yellow / orange like the one posted and also the black sun coral. The black one is a little slower to come out so I feed the yellow/orange ones then the black ones.

Just be sure to feed each individual polyp
 
Thanks for the response, I've allready been working on feeding. I started with a few drops of selcon from which I got no response. So then I went to my shotgun mix added some tank water to defrost and once it was defrosted I mixed it up and put in some of the liquid. It didnt take long for some of the polyps to start to open. After about ahalf hour 90% of the polyps were about half open that was as far they went. :( I put in some of the chopped food its only a ten gallon tank so it didnt take much to fill the water with particles. I still didnt get any better response. The lights were on (65 watt LOA PC) so maybe this had something to do with it. Not sure if I should try again once the lights are off. Now I need to siphon out what I put in. Do you think it would be alright to leave it in until morning, or should I siphon it out now?

mcox when it comes out of the QT it will go into my 100 gal seagrass tank which currently has no predation and is being overrun by pods. No seagrass in there yet just some LR and a few soft corals and DSB. Once the sand bed is mature and the seagrass is added it'll be lit with T-5.
 
Back
Top