Johnseye
Reef Addict
That would make the M1 even more ideal then.
I'm wondering if I just have a problematic pump.
New EcoTech Marine Vectra Return Pump
- Thread starter fredro
- Start date
That would make the M1 even more ideal then.
I'm wondering if I just have a problematic pump.
soulpatch
New member
The ones I touched at MACNA were not running hot though they were only acting as a return in an unstocked aquarium so not much head pressure.
Might be worth to send it in and see what they say and flip back to your old pump while it is out.
Yet, the 'recommended' pumps for all his skimmers are pressure pumps? I haven't used a LR skimmer in over two decades, but a venturi is inherently a device that functions based on differential pressures, and while a flow pump might work, I doubt it would work as well.
In Johnseye's skimmer video, the bubbles seem to be a mix of fine and large. Hard to tell for sure, but maybe the M1 just isn't a good match for a venturi skimmer - whether or no the back pressure is causing excessive heat. Might be worth asking Jeff for his opinion.
FWIW, DC pumps worked very poorly on my dual mazzei venturi skimmer when I tried one earlier this year (though not a pump as good as the Vectra).
Borrowed at watt meter from a neighbor this morning. Did a test for one hour and have now returned the meter. I changed my Eco Smart profile and ran the M1 pump at 100%. When I calibrated the pump, it's max speed was set at a true 100% as far as I could determine. As previously mentioned I am using 1" plumbing not 3/4". Pump is a return pump with a head height of only 48".
At my normal max rat of 91%, the pump showed a consumption of 76-78 watts at the wall. It would vary during the test within that range. The Eco Smart program shows 73 watts. When I ramped up the speed to 100%, Eco Smart showed 80 watts. The meter varied between 84-86 watts. Run time one hour at 100%.
Pump was cool to the touch. No change in heating pattern in 120 gallon tank [40 gallon sump]. Heater off during start of test and came on around minute 44 and stayed on to minute 58. House temp this morning 69F start 71F end of hour. Tank Temp. at start 78.2, when I noticed heater came on- 77.4 and it was back to 78 at end of test.
Thoughts and a guess or two.
I was surprised to see the watts at the wall vary slowly up and down within the 2 watt range. Measuring house voltage in the past from power does vary low 118 to high 120. Did not test that today. Older house with 30 amp circuits and a mix of copper wire gauge sizes mostly 10-12.
This pump tries to maintain a constant flow rate and will use more power if it senses a reduction in flow. I use venturi flow enhancers [eductors] on my twin 3/4" returns. The pump uses about 1 watt more power with them on. It is mentioned in the Eco Tech literature the pump will increase power to overcome an partial blockage to maintain set rate of flow. You can replicate this by partially blocking your return pipe. I have ball valves and notice a slight perceived increase in pressure by closing a ball valve a small amount. Watt usage increased 1 or 2 watts. Apparently, per Eco Tech, the pump will exceed design 100% norm if it thinks it needs to. For how long and how much was not made clear. I would assume this would use more watts and increase heat generation.
Guess: Could a venturi skimmer cause such variable increased flow resistance causing the pump to constantly increase/ decrease its power to maintain flow and cause power consumption above the normal 100% speed setting [or consumption rates of less than 100% say set at 90% but using power at 95% rate etc.]? Could this be the reason for a hotter pump? My only other guess is there is something wrong with the pump's internals or a restriction in the intake or outflow ports.
Hope the above helps and is not too confusing.
RJ
shred5
Premium Member
I agree it might not require allot of pressure but venturi require some by design.
I had a life reef skimmer probably 20 years ago and ran it off a 2-mdq-sc. It was right when venturi skimmer started getting popular right after air stone skimmers. I got rid of my 6 foot air driven skimmer for it.
What is funny is my parents just found it in the basement of their house. I told them to toss it. Looking at them now they have not changed the design much in 20 years. If I knew so many people still used them I should have sold it.
I bet it works just as well as the modern skimmers with their cone shapes, bubble plates and pin-wheel pumps. :lol:
sleepydoc
Team RC
Interesting reading the comments on power consumption and heat production. Power consumption will be the sum of the power used by the controller and that used by the pump itself. Ultimately any power used by the pump itself will be dissipated as heat (in the aquarium if it's being used internally.) It shouldn't really matter if it feels 'cool' or not; 80 watts is 80 watts.
Johnseye
Reef Addict
Wouldn't how that pump dissipates heat be a factor? Or wouldn't how many watts used at the pump vs controller be a factor? If one pump which uses more power at the pump than another which uses less at the pump and more at the controller feels cooler than the other then wouldn't that be an indicator?
I don't think there is any way to know how much power is being used at the pump vs. controller except perhaps with the Vectra where ESL displays only the pump wattage used. And that is subtracted from the power at the wall measured by a Kill A Watt. I don't know any other pump that displays the pump power consumption info found in ESL however. I am only guessing that is what ESL is displaying.
pciscott
Pirates Cove Reef
I put a M1 online last night in closed loop mode on Reef Crest yellow setting. The pump is mounted external and I am surprised how hot it is running and it ramps up and down. It is more than warm to the touch. I will look at my graphs in a few days to see if anything changed temp wise on Apex, this pump replaced a Reef Octopus 5500 DC pump on a closed loop on my frag tank.
Johnseye
Reef Addict
I contacted BRS to see if I could exchange it. They said they'd test it for me but if it's just running hot that's not a cause for exchange or return as it still does what it's supposed to, pump water. I also asked Tim Marks if he could help out and his statement was "We cannot do anything about this return as the OEM because we have no control over BRS or their policies. "
As more people use this pump then we'll learn its impact on water temp and know whether these are just anomalies. I personally can't have a 3-5 degree increase in my tank. I don't run a chiller, don't want to and I don't want to add fans. My next step may be to either buy another Red Dragon, or try a Fluval A/C pump rated at a similar flow to see if I get a temp increase.
As more people use this pump then we'll learn its impact on water temp and know whether these are just anomalies. I personally can't have a 3-5 degree increase in my tank. I don't run a chiller, don't want to and I don't want to add fans. My next step may be to either buy another Red Dragon, or try a Fluval A/C pump rated at a similar flow to see if I get a temp increase.
John
Did you read my post today about all the tests I conducted. I did it to try to help you. I am guessing the Vectra might not be a good pump for your skimmer because it is trying to maintain a stated flow rate. Why don't you take it off your skimmer and run it submerged as a return or even just a closed loop and see how it does? That would answer the question about skimmer use. Best of luck.
RJ
All external pumps do transfer some heat to water through the device. I set mind up externally just to test the pump and EcoSmartLive. Pump was warm but not hot. I have a Panworld pump on my mix station to mix and lift water from basement. I get warmer than the Vectra at least after a few hours of operation. The Vectra seemed to warm up quicker than the cast iron Panworld and seemed to cool off quicker.
RJ
SPotter
Active member
Was there a significant increase in water temp? I get zero increase in temps with my dolphin 4750 pumps and I'm running two on my closed loop systems. The motors get really hot but nothing transfers to the water...one of the reasons I chose the pump.
Johnseye
Reef Addict
I did see your post and thank you. I could run a test and put two 90 elbows returning the water back into the sump and see if there's a temp increase. I could also try swapping it with my RD3 as a return. No closed loop for me. A shame this pump won't work with the skimmer. Thanks for the help RJ.
SPotter
Active member
Eastamherstbias
New member
This whole thing sounds weird. There must be another factor playing a role into your increase. You have a lot of the same equipment as me and I do not have any noticeable increase in temperature. An 80w pump won't raise a 120g tank 5 degrees and if you are running it at 40w, it would play a small role in the temp of the tank. We need to move past one person "alleged" issue. It just sounds like you don't like it and are looking for a way to return it claiming an issue.
SPotter
Active member
His comment only says that the pump is hot which I would expect. He made no mention of tank temps.
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