New In-wall Project Begins

[tgunn]

Thanks tgunn... We can't wait! Savko called and got in the 2" single union ball valves for the drains. Those and the gate valves will be here next week.

Now we are just down to the return pump (leaning towards the BL1000), the sump/refugium, and if we want to order the Luminarc reflectors. The Luminarcs look great, but we would have to put a VHO Actinic under the edge to get it all over the tank.

-Doug

It's remarkable just how many plumbing parts come into play in these projects!

You had expressed concern previously about having the back notched for the external overflow; I'm assuming the 5/8" back was the tank builder's solution to that?

Also, just noticing a previous question you had about baffling a rubbermaid stock tank. Have you found anything else on that?

With my tank upstairs and the sump in the basement, microbubbles will likely be an issue for me. Not sure if you were planning on doing traditional under/over type sump baffles to combat those in your config.

I am going the stock tank route myself and will probably build a bubble trap similar to the one here. The basic idea is to mount a container inside the stock tank and install the baffling in the container. Some have used buckets in buckets...

Another idea I've thought of to provide baffling would be to have an external box (perhaps a cheap 10 gallon tank with some baffles installed) sitting on a little platform beside my rubbermaid stock such that the top water level in the "baffle tank" is level with the top water level in the stock tank. Then I could just throw and bulkhead in the side of the baffle tank and stock tank and connect with some pipe.

Tyler

 

[pecan2phat]

Doug,
Thanks for the covers, I received them yesterday.

As you know, I chose a Amp2100 as a return so that I can also power my skimmer. One thing that I noticed that when I tried to throttle back the Amp a little to troubleshoot my flushing drain problem, the Amp started to leak at the shaft seals. Not a lot but enough for me to rethink using a direct drive pump on a possible pressure (user applied) application.
I do find that the Amp is quieter than the Dart I have powering the OM. I'm kinda glad I picked the version 2 versus the version 1 due to the amount of flow that the pump pushes. I think with the version 1, this would have been too much from one outlet for my purposes and also the fact that I chose the 1" outlets versus the 1.5" outlets.

Now to work on the micro-bubbles.................................

 

[dougchambers]

You had expressed concern previously about having the back notched for the external overflow; I'm assuming the 5/8" back was the tank builder's solution to that?

Tyler -
The builder scaled up the back panel from 1/2" to 5/8" for added strength. We also created a bridge in the middle for the eurobracing to anchor with.

Also, just noticing a previous question you had about baffling a rubbermaid stock tank. Have you found anything else on that?

I haven't figured out what I'm going to do for the sump/refugium. I thought about putting a smaller tank within the big tank, but haven't found a system that I like very well. I also thought like you about putting a smaller tank on the side and allowing it to drain into the sump area. Now that the tank is on order, we can move on to the final plumbing details.

I am going the stock tank route myself and will probably build a bubble trap similar to the one here. The basic idea is to mount a container inside the stock tank and install the baffling in the container. Some have used buckets in buckets...

Thanks for the link. I hadn't decided on which way to go for the drains. Technically I was planning on two (2) 1.5" durso drains, but with only ~900gph, that's a ton of overkill, but good for redundancy.

Originally posted by pecan
As you know, I chose a Amp2100 as a return so that I can also power my skimmer. One thing that I noticed that when I tried to throttle back the Amp a little to troubleshoot my flushing drain problem, the Amp started to leak at the shaft seals. Not a lot but enough for me to rethink using a direct drive pump on a possible pressure (user applied) application.

I'm definitely leaning towards a magnetic driven pump like the Gen-X or BL1000.

I do find that the Amp is quieter than the Dart I have powering the OM. I'm kinda glad I picked the version 2 versus the version 1 due to the amount of flow that the pump pushes. I think with the version 1, this would have been too much from one outlet for my purposes and also the fact that I chose the 1" outlets versus the 1.5" outlets.

Sounds like I choose wisely on the OM4-way Version 2 drum. I figured I could always get another drum later, but the Version 2 looked to be a good solution. We will alternate with outlet #1 and #3 returning through the bottom of the tank and outlet #2 and #4 over the top.

Now to work on the micro-bubbles.................................

Let us know how the battle with micro bubbles goes! Remember it always seems worse with new plumbing........

Glad to hear you got the vent covers. Let me know how they look when you are done.

 

[dougchambers]

As we continue through the final design stages of this project, I seemed to have overlooked our skimmer requirements. When the tank was smaller (before everyone talked us into scaling it up) we planned to use our existing EuroReef CS6-1. I'm pretty sure it's going to be too small for our estimated 185g (135g Display, 50g sump) capacity. I started looking at the EuroReef CS8-2, but unfortunately, they are still as expensive as they used to be.

Any other thoughts on skimmer selection?

Hey Pecan - What are you going to use on your new system?

-Doug

 

[pecan2phat]

Doug,
With your 48x30x25 dimensions, I think your display would be more like 156 gallons

Right now I just threw in an AquaC EV-120 that I had bought 2 years ago for my 90g that I never switched out with the existing RS Berlin. (started skimming after it got threatened to be replaced)
With the increased flow that is tee'd off the Amp2100, it's skimming nicely right out of the box. I can control it with the JG ball valve to have a wet or dry foam. I know it does not have the eventual bio-load yet, just 120 lbs of Marshal LR so I am thinking of a future upgrade once the EV-120 maxxes out.
I haven't decided on any particular skimmer yet, but I'm leaning away from the beckett skimmers due to the high pressure flow needed & also the maintenance on the injectors.
Deltecs are nice but too pricey, maybe a larger ASM skimmer (knockoff of the Euro-Reefs).

Also found out my micro-bubbles are entirely from the skimmer. If I turn the air valve off, my display water is crystal clear. I guess even with my 4 baffle design at 2.25" apart still cannot handle the micro-bubbles coming out of the EV-120.
Back to the drawing board. Might try to hang a doctored 100 micron sock off the effluent gate valve.

 

[dougchambers]

Pecan,

I was using the finished inside dimensions when I ran the calcluation for the tank volume. It's surprising how much difference there really is. By the time we include the drop for the overflow, the 1/2" front and 5/8" back glass, we end up right about (47x23x28.875 or 31214in^3). I think that leaves us at about 135g if I did the math right.

I was looking at the ASM skimmers last night. Andy gets good press on his MyReefCreations products to, but like you said, Beckett skimmers can be problematic.

I'm sure we will start with our CS6-1 and see how long we can get by. We will have a pretty good sized refugium.

The sock on the effluent gate might work for you pretty well. In thinking about it, you might want to make sure it can vent or that the sock isn't tight around the valve output. If the sock gets clogged, it could create more backpressure and start flooding the skimmer?

-Doug

 

[jeffbrig]

Any other thoughts on skimmer selection?

You only need as big a skimmer as your bioload. You'll probably be fine (at least initially) with the 6-1, but you will need more if you increse your livestock for the new tank size.

Is there any chance you can upgrade to a bigger ER skimmer body but re-use your existing pump? That would easily save $100 off the cost of a new one. I'd keep an eye on h2otropicals to see if a blem without a pump ever comes up (of course, their site is offline for the time being), or post in the ER forum and see if they can work with you on an upgrade.

Personally, I prefer to oversize the skimmer a bit. My "250" is really only about 210 when you take the inside dimensions (1" acrylic all the way around), even less if you subtract off the overflow. The 90 gallon sump will probably only hold about 45 gallons when running, so figure 255 total volume, and I will be running an ER 12-2 rated for 400. I figure the bigger skimmer gives me a margin of error in case something dies and I don't immediately notice. Should be that much harder to 'nuke' the tank.

 

[dougchambers]

Hey Jeff,

It's good to hear from you again...

I have a direct link to the H2OTropicals Blems site. It doesn't look like it has seen any activity since October. I know they are working on their website.

We will start with the CS6-1 and see how it goes. Initially the Bioload will be the same as we have now but with a little more live rock. I looked at the ASM skimmers and they have a great price point. I really like our EuroReef. It just looks to be built better and we haven't had any problems with ours.

I'm like you. I like having at least 50% more overhead capacity on our skimming and will scale accordingly. I have an email into EuroReef and will see if they have any ideas or "upgrade" options.

As for the rest of the poject, I plan to order the Luminarc reflectors this week. They are pretty big, but should work well.

We should have some of the intial pictures of the tank being built later this week or next and we will post them for those interested.

-Doug

 

[jeffbrig]

Hey Jeff,

It's good to hear from you again...

Hey, once I post to a thread I tend to stick around.

Actually, you and I seem to have a lot in common as far as the amount of thought and design effort that goes into one of these tank projects. I starting putting pencil to paper at least 6 months ago, and I'm just now starting to build my 250 system. If you ever get bored you're welcome to come browse my tank thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=514675

Looking forward to seeing your pics as the project progresses!

 

[dougchambers]

The first pictures are in from Miracles Aquariums of the tank construction. They do some nice work! Notice the clean grinds and polish work on the notch. The overflow box will be built next week some time.

Front View: (Check out the wave tank in the background!)

Back View: (Notice the drain and return holes in the bottom. You can also see the Starphire on the front panel.)

Notch Detail View:

 

[dougchambers]

Got a new picture from Derek at Miracles today. The overflow is done and they will start the acrylic back panel and eurobracing next week.

I was a little concerned about the strength in the corners of the overflow so they are going to install some corner braces.

We checked on the construction yesterday and the wall for the tank was built wrong. A new framing print has been submitted to clarify the dimensions. I'll shoot some pictures this weekend if we get a chance.

-Doug

 

[jeffbrig]

Looking good Doug! I thought they were going to attach the external overflow after the tank was in place. Did the design change since then?

 

[dougchambers]

Thanks Jeff! I thought we would have to attach the overflow after we put the tank in the room because of the overall size. Once I quit thinking two dimensionally ;-) we figured out that we could flip the tank over and should just fit. Of course I'm not too thrilled about rolling the tank around too much, but will take our time and be carefull...

Your project is looking incredible!

-Doug

 

[dougchambers]

I thought we would post a quick update on the construction phase. Here are the first shots of the tank wall and support room. Technically, the wall has to be cut-out because it was built wrong, but you can get the idea;

The kick-out on the right is for the entertainment center and the tank will be on the left.

We started the stand construction. The base support is solid 2x6 Doug Fir that has been ripped and re-dimensioned. The corners are all joined with Gorilla glue and biscuts. The top plate will be 3/4" ply with a 1/2" foam cap.

We picked up a new MR3 at a good price from a local friend that couldn't get it to fit in his stand. Unfortunate for him, but good pricing for us. We ordered a PCX-55HP from Andy (cool guy!) today. They should be great together.

Last but not least, we ordered a pair of Luminarc L3 reflectors this week. It's all coming together....

 

[NexDog]

Whoa, green-eyed with envy!

 

[LittleBlueGT]

If I was only a reefer 4 yrs ago when I built my house......

I would be more in debt.

 

[dougchambers]

Debt is the operative word! This "little" project is getting spendy! It better be worth it...

Welcome back LSM

 

[cali_reef]

dougchambers

Nice tank design and I love to see how your tank turns out. Please keep up the posting with lots of pictures of the tank and the fish room.

 

[jeffbrig]

Debt is the operative word! This "little" project is getting spendy!

I know the feeling! I've made so many random trips to lowes and home depot my wife has started referring to our tank "the money pit".

Keep the pics coming, doug, this should be a nice setup.

 

[dougchambers]

Jeff - I know how you feel! The guys at Savko have me all dialed in. "Good afternoon Mr. Chambers, how did those 2" Single Union Ball Valves work for you. What can we do for you today? Will that be on your account?" Wrong... Wrong... Wrong...

We got the Luminarc reflectors today and WOW! These things aren't your typical bent aluminum reflectors. The are well designed and riveted together. The brackets are nice and the socket assembly is first rate. I'm impressed. One thing I noted was that the hardware should be changed out for stainless, but other than that, they look great.

We stopped by the house tonight and the framers look to be done. We should have windows tomorrow. Wahooooo... Now the real waiting game begins. The tank wall was torn out and rebuilt. It's not cabinet grade, but the sill that the 3/4" ply tank support will rest on is within 1/16" of level across the 50". I can shim the rest if needed.

The stand is nearly built. We are just waiting on the 3" leg levellers to come in and we will be up and running. Good thing I checked the floor because there is 1/2" of drop from one end of the tank to the other. That's why they make threaded levellers.

On to cabinets and paint chips...

-Doug