New Lighting Bill Passed

[TropTrea]

I know at the present place I'm working they are pulling all the 400 Watt Metal Hide Lights and replaceing them with units that consist of 4-HO T-5 54 watt bulbs. That is basicly replacing 400+ watt lighing units with 216 watt lighting units. Visually the sections of the plant with the new florescent units are noticably brighter looking. It was explained to me that while these new units are costing over $300.00 each that they will come out way ahead in less than one year.

The calculations are saving on electricity @.11 KW/hour= $126 per year in energy savings per light fixture, maintance cost difference of about $35.00 per year = $161 per year and with the $200 federal rebate on there taxes it will save them $361 the first year which is more than they are spending on these light fixtures.

It was also noted that by 2012 they cannot use the old MH lights anymore and if they waited till next year they would not be getting the rebate on these fixtures.



Dennis

 

[TropTrea]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11456963#post11456963 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barjam


Why was sodium mentioned, they are far, far, far more efficient than any technology commonly available topping out at 200 lumens per watt. Compare that to T5HO at 85.

You need to be real careful when you make these comparisons. They are simply comparing Lumns and not looking at color temperature, or PAR values that we are concerned about. Sodium Lights produce light in a very narrow frequency range that has in in the yellow part of the spectrum.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11456963#post11456963 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barjam

MH range from 65-115. T5HO is less efficient than T5 (that is listed) and is in the 85 lumens/watt range..

Again we look at the MH's that are at 115 Lums per watt and these are usually at very low Color Temps like 2,700K or even 2,400K. When you get up to 10,000K to 20,000K the Lumns poer wat does drop off considerably.

Whare we need to get a good equivelent is someone comparing different bulb types that are at the same color temperature. And even at that you can look an Sanjay's data and see that one manufacturer to another often have more than 50% of a difference.

So what you need is a table showing PAR, LUMs, Color Temp, Manufacturer, and Type of Bulb. And even with that the reflector design will make a big difference. As an example the Lums prodiced by CF bulbs are much higher than what is usable do to the reflector design.

Dennis

 

[The Grim Reefer]

There is no bulb ban!!!

There are new standards set for the lumens per watt for incandescent lamps. They will only be able to use up to like 40 watts as long as they produce enough lumens.

Metal Halides are not banned. The only thing they did was revise the efficiency standards for the Ballasts. Nothing bans the use of Halides yet.

 

[washingtond]

Here is the link to more information:
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2007/12/18/us-energy-bill-phases-out-incandescent-light-bulb/

 

[barjam]

What I am saying is that used in the proper setting Mh/Sodium are very efficient and should be exempt. It would be asinine to replace the world's sodium lamps (considering where they are used) for another technology because they are so efficient, for example. Yes they are yellow and ugly but does it matter for street lamps?

When you get up to 10,000K to 20,000K the Lumns poer wat does drop off considerably.

That is by definition. Any lighting source boosted out of the 6500k range looses lumens because lumens is a measure of light that humans perceive. I think what you are saying is that MH does a poor job of making blue light relative to fluorescent, right?

I know at the present place I'm working they are pulling all the 400 Watt Metal Hide Lights and replaceing them with units that consist of 4-HO T-5 54 watt bulbs. That is basicly replacing 400+ watt lighing units with 216 watt lighting units.

Yea the T5 fixture is much better at this sort of lighting. Point sources suck at lighting a gymnasium and the MH's will drop faster than the T5 lumens wise.

Whare we need to get a good equivelent is someone comparing different bulb types that are at the same color temperature.

Sanjay is doing testing on T5s currently.

There is no bulb ban!!!

Shhh, it is giving us something to discuss!!

 

[8BALL_99]

Way to many Commercial buidlings use MH indoors and out for them to ever ban them.. I just don't see it. Not to mention there simply isn't a light to replace all MH fixtures with. T5s might work in some cases.. But they dont in alot. This really doesn't matter anyway cause the ban in question has nothing to do with MH. Its focused on incandescent bulbs. If you go to lowes or walmart and look in the light bulbs you will already see what this is focused on.. Probably 80% of the standard size bulbs on the shelfs are Compact fluorescent. All this ban means is in a couple of years that % will go up.

Now this does suck a little cause I have a few halogen work lights and a nice sleek desk lamp I'll have to replace.. I guess lets put more mercury in our fish and less Co2 in the air.. sigh

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11457615#post11457615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
You need to be real careful when you make these comparisons. They are simply comparing Lumns and not looking at color temperature, or PAR values that we are concerned about. Sodium Lights produce light in a very narrow frequency range that has in in the yellow part of the spectrum.




Again we look at the MH's that are at 115 Lums per watt and these are usually at very low Color Temps like 2,700K or even 2,400K. When you get up to 10,000K to 20,000K the Lumns poer wat does drop off considerably.

Whare we need to get a good equivelent is someone comparing different bulb types that are at the same color temperature. And even at that you can look an Sanjay's data and see that one manufacturer to another often have more than 50% of a difference.

So what you need is a table showing PAR, LUMs, Color Temp, Manufacturer, and Type of Bulb. And even with that the reflector design will make a big difference. As an example the Lums prodiced by CF bulbs are much higher than what is usable do to the reflector design.

Dennis

Those numbers... 85-95 for T5HO, 95+ for T5NO, 105 for MH, 60 for PC, etc... while you are correct that for OUR uses, those readings need to be interpreted differently due to spectrum, and FWIW, a PAR value is much more effective for us, those numbers that I recognize are the ones given by the mfg's at 3000K, and as far as the lighting industry goes, this is a good number to compare. Now, if you are talking for OUR uses only (but then why are we even talking about filament and sodium bulbs?), then yes, those efficiency ratings get thrown out the window. Many 20,000K halides are lucky to have 1/5 the lumen/watt rating of a 3000K.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11458314#post11458314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 8BALL_99
Way to many Commercial buidlings use MH indoors and out for them to ever ban them.. I just don't see it. Not to mention there simply isn't a light to replace all MH fixtures with. T5s might work in some cases.. But they dont in alot. This really doesn't matter anyway cause the ban in question has nothing to do with MH. Its focused on incandescent bulbs. If you go to lowes or walmart and look in the light bulbs you will already see what this is focused on.. Probably 80% of the standard size bulbs on the shelfs are Compact fluorescent. All this ban means is in a couple of years that % will go up.

Now this does suck a little cause I have a few halogen work lights and a nice sleek desk lamp I'll have to replace.. I guess lets put more mercury in our fish and less Co2 in the air.. sigh

Well, perhaps your desk lamp will be exempt. I know the little PAR 18-20 (for 12v spotlights) bulbs with the built in reflectors might be exempt... there just isnt a good alternative yet.

It would be nice if as part of the bill, they banned M58 and 59 ballasts (aka probe-start bulbs)... that would be nice. Then we would be on the effective same standard as the rest of the world, and halide selection would be much better because they would all pretty much be HQI/pulse-start spec. It would be an 'energy efficient' move as well. HQI's destroy T5s even in efficiency.

Of course, because we are so far behind the curve as far as international standards go for energy use, by the time these laws go into effect, in 2012, the market may have already switched over to favoring LED's anyways, and the law will be useless...lol. I know several tungsten bulb makers are expected to stop production long before the deadline anyways.