New Lumen Bright Reflector. ... any info on them
- Thread starter jman77
- Start date
- Status
I just installed 4 x DE LB reflectors with 4 T5 Superactinics on my 8 foot long 400 Gal tank. The T5's are housed in Icecap reflectors. I mounted the T5's right beside the base of the LB reflectors and you don't see a shadow from the MH's. Infact the light from the very edge of the LB's is not very intense so even if the T5 reflector overlaps the LB reflector by 1/2 an inch you can't tell.
I must say the LB's are definitly bright. I mounted mine so the top of the reflector is 16 inches from the water surface. At night you can see the "spot light" effect between the bulbs so I may need to try and raise them another inch or so. (I think the max. I can go is 17.5 inches before I run out of room)
I went from 4 x PFO Mini's and there is a big difference in lighting up all the little nooks and crannies but I would say that for a 16" wide reflector the real usable lighting area is probably about 12 inches at the top of my tank before you can visably see the light diminishing.
I had this effect with my PFO Mini's as well and had to raise them up to spread out the light spread.
I would rate these as very nice reflectors, in the DE version they produce the same spot light effect as a very large PFO Mini would (if it existed)
I must say the LB's are definitly bright. I mounted mine so the top of the reflector is 16 inches from the water surface. At night you can see the "spot light" effect between the bulbs so I may need to try and raise them another inch or so. (I think the max. I can go is 17.5 inches before I run out of room)
I went from 4 x PFO Mini's and there is a big difference in lighting up all the little nooks and crannies but I would say that for a 16" wide reflector the real usable lighting area is probably about 12 inches at the top of my tank before you can visably see the light diminishing.
I had this effect with my PFO Mini's as well and had to raise them up to spread out the light spread.
I would rate these as very nice reflectors, in the DE version they produce the same spot light effect as a very large PFO Mini would (if it existed)
dja1980
Active member
Wow. I just got to the end of this monster thread. Man, there's some good information here. Not only on LB's, but I learned a ton about lighting in general. I do have one question...
I'm in the process of setting up a 120g (4' x 2' x 2'). Originally, I was planning to use LA's with ReefLux 12K SE bulbs, but I was on the fence about which ballast to use. I was torn between using the Coralvue Electronic or PFO HQI (both 400w) due to total par vs. cost to run. I want my tank to be as bright as possible without risking damage to my corals, but I also don't want to spend more than I have to on my energy bills and replacing bulbs prematurely.
Now that I've read so many good things about the LB's, I'm thinking that if I go with the Coralvue Electronic ballast with LB's, the par numbers might be very similar to what I would have gotten with the PFO HQI ballast with LA's, only with less operating costs.
Has anyone tested this? I would also assume that using the PFO HQI ballast with LB's might be overkill on a 2' deep tank. Would you agree?
I'm in the process of setting up a 120g (4' x 2' x 2'). Originally, I was planning to use LA's with ReefLux 12K SE bulbs, but I was on the fence about which ballast to use. I was torn between using the Coralvue Electronic or PFO HQI (both 400w) due to total par vs. cost to run. I want my tank to be as bright as possible without risking damage to my corals, but I also don't want to spend more than I have to on my energy bills and replacing bulbs prematurely.
Now that I've read so many good things about the LB's, I'm thinking that if I go with the Coralvue Electronic ballast with LB's, the par numbers might be very similar to what I would have gotten with the PFO HQI ballast with LA's, only with less operating costs.
Has anyone tested this? I would also assume that using the PFO HQI ballast with LB's might be overkill on a 2' deep tank. Would you agree?
bubbletip2
Premium Member
Interstingly enough, a PFO HQI ballast will not fire a 12K Reeflux hard enough. I have tested a 12K Reeflux on a PFO HQI and the numbers were 50% of what they are with a CV ballast or electronic in general. You definitely don't want to run them on a PFO. Another thingthat is different is a PFO HQI ballast gives this bulb a pinkish hue that looks really unnatural.
For a few more dollars in purchasing a CV ballast, you will have saved the amount of money you spent in energy costs within a couple months time. Check the amps generated by a PFO and an electronic. PFO's are archaic in terms of lighting in my opinion. A serious waste of energy and especially with rising electric bills.
You obviously read the thread and have seen that the PAR numbers with these ballast far exceeds most anything we have seen and will certainly be plenty of light for anything you want to grow.
Hopefully that helps
Jim
For a few more dollars in purchasing a CV ballast, you will have saved the amount of money you spent in energy costs within a couple months time. Check the amps generated by a PFO and an electronic. PFO's are archaic in terms of lighting in my opinion. A serious waste of energy and especially with rising electric bills.
You obviously read the thread and have seen that the PAR numbers with these ballast far exceeds most anything we have seen and will certainly be plenty of light for anything you want to grow.
Hopefully that helps
Jim
dja1980
Active member
Seriously?! The reason I was looking at the PFO / 12K ReefLux combo was because I've had this recommend by a few people who REALLY like the par / look. I was told that overdriving the ReefLux bulbs gives you better par numbers and better look than an Electonic ballast. Is there anything special about the Coralvue Electronic ballast, or are all Electonics pretty much the same? I can't say that I've seen HQI / 12K ReefLux combo in person... yet, but I hope to soon. Thanks for the input, Jim!
JCTewks
In Memoriam
I relly don't think you'll want to do 400w reeflux 12K's on a 120 gal tank....in LB's or LA's. They push PLENTY of PAR on the 250 to keep anything. IMO the 400's will allow you to grow SPS on the sandbed, and nothing will survive in the top 18" of the tank.
If you've learned anything from reading this thread, just get the CV 250w ballast, reeflux 12K, LB mini's and call it a day. You may even save some money over the PFO's by dropping down to 250w....You'll definitely save money every month
sailfish2
New member
agree
agree
nreefer
Quote
"I would say that for a 16" wide reflector the real usable lighting area is probably about 12 inches at the top of my tank before you can visably see the light diminishing."
I agree with this. I found that the par droped from 350 to 150 at just 1†to 1.5" outside the reflector. This is with the bottom of the reflector 7 ¼†of the water and the bulb around 12†away.
I like these and I am glad that I bought them but you need to buy the largest you can fit. I feel they give no useable light outside the dimensions of the reflector. JMHO
I wish they made a pendent in the larger version.
It seems someone could make a similar reflector that would be square so you do not have the voids left from the octagon shape.
Joe
agree
nreefer
Quote
"I would say that for a 16" wide reflector the real usable lighting area is probably about 12 inches at the top of my tank before you can visably see the light diminishing."
I agree with this. I found that the par droped from 350 to 150 at just 1†to 1.5" outside the reflector. This is with the bottom of the reflector 7 ¼†of the water and the bulb around 12†away.
I like these and I am glad that I bought them but you need to buy the largest you can fit. I feel they give no useable light outside the dimensions of the reflector. JMHO
I wish they made a pendent in the larger version.
It seems someone could make a similar reflector that would be square so you do not have the voids left from the octagon shape.
Joe
Rickyrooz1
Acropora Nut
Anyone see Marc's site? He is going to be posting PAR readings for his tank with Lumen Bright's. He already has a few readings with Spider reflectors and various bulbs.
http://melevsreef.com/par_readings.html
http://melevsreef.com/par_readings.html
Sailfish2, I too am happy with these reflectors, My problem was the open water space I had if you take into account my Eurobracing was 18 inches. So I couldn't go much bigger if I wanted to include the t5's with reflectors running along side the LB's. I considered the LA DE reflectors but I liked the idea of having the reflectors mounted high to reduce salt spray and heat in the tank. The tank certainly looks alot brighter than before.
dja1980
Active member
Hmmm... Now you've got me thinking…<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12186742#post12186742 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
I relly don't think you'll want to do 400w reeflux 12K's on a 120 gal tank....in LB's or LA's. They push PLENTY of PAR on the 250 to keep anything. IMO the 400's will allow you to grow SPS on the sandbed, and nothing will survive in the top 18" of the tank.
If you've learned anything from reading this thread, just get the CV 250w ballast, reeflux 12K, LB mini's and call it a day. You may even save some money over the PFO's by dropping down to 250w....You'll definitely save money every month
I've seen so many fantastic examples with 400’s in LA’s over a 24†deep tank (whether it be 90g, 120g, 180g, 240g, etc… shouldn’t matter) where the corals are absolutely exploding with color (mounted high & low).
My step-dad is running 250w ReefLux 10K’s on ARO Electronic ballasts with actinic supplementation, and I must admit that the tank looks a bit dim. Granted, he’s NOT using LA’s or LB’s, but his colors just don’t seem to “pop†like I’ve seen in other tanks with 400’s with similar reflectors. Hopefully, I can talk him into upgrading his reflectors soon so he can at least make better use of what I consider an underpowered lighting system.
My idea was to go with the 400w dimmable ballasts so I could tone them down if need be. My thought process is that I’d rather have too much light and be able to dim it than spend all that money on 250s and wish I had more.
bubbletip2
Premium Member
dja1980,
I want you to think this through clearly as you have read the thread and have seen many tanks with 400w 12K Reflux that are obviously flourishing.
I am not trying to create an argument, but I definitely disagree that coral are will die at the top half of the tank simply because you are using 400w bulbs. I definitely feel you need to be a bit more careful in acclimating coral.
I personally have 2 -400w 12K Reeflux over my 156g and my coral look very vibrant and are growing as would be expected.
I tend to reduce photoperiods whenever I get new coral or decide to start moving things around. When I reduce photoperiod I literally mean down to 3-4 hours per day for 3-5 days increasing by an hour and going through the 3-5 day cycle again until I am back to my original photoperiod which has been between 6-7 hours. If you want to speed up this process, it is your own inpatience and you risk the life of our coral. Proper acclimation is so important and I have yet to lose a coral when acclimating in this way.
I think you are on the right path as far as considering the dimmables as you can reduce the amount of light during these times when you need to acclimate.
In the recent past I have done many tests of different bulbs and ballasts and found an LFS owner that was running a 250w 12K bulb on an ARO ballast. To both of our surprise and him more than me, we were reading between 350-450 1" above the surface on 3 different ARO and 12K ballast combinations. I explained that the reason your coral is not doing as well is because you are ignorant to what the bulb and ballast combination is actually putting out. Without a meter, he would have never known and would have kept this set up and blamed it on the bulb most likely instead of the ballast. There is so much of this on Reef Central today and people are talking about something without "any" concrete evidence as to what is really goign on.
I do realize that many people are not going to fork over $250 for a PAR meter, however if you did you would better be able to tell what is actually going on with your ballast and bulb combination.
ARO's do not fire 12K's well also. At least the 3 ballasts I tested. 250w CV ballasts have been testing over 1000 par 1" above the surface as opposed to 350-450 on the ARO's. Do you see the differences here?
People just assume that an electronic is an electronic and a HQI must be more powerful by the nature of it. This is just not the case and bulbs require the right ballast to perform optimally. I would imagine an Icecap ballast performing well with a 12K but I have not tested it. I do know that EVC electronic ballasts will fire a 12K with high PAR readings - 850 1" above the surface as I own one. Not as high as CV ballast but respectable.
12K bulbs were meant to be run on CV ballasts. That is just the way of it. If you want the color and PAR that was intended by the bulb manufacturer, which in my words is "like swimming on a reef on a sunny day", then you need to run them on CV ballasts. Basically a perfect combination of blue and white light. Great for photographs, particularly white balancing the photos that is often difficult with bulbs that are too blue.
For reference again regarding PFO HQI ballasts - we were getting numbers that were 450 1" above the surface with 12K bulb 14" above the surface. This test was done with a Lumenarc though so I would imagine at least a 15% - 20% increase if we tested the PFO HQI's under a LumenBright. That would still be more than half less than running the bulb on a CV ballast. PFO HQI's are the biggest waste of money, electric bill wise. Besides they are honking big looking more like a stereo amp than a ballast and man are they heavy.
Tell your buddies to borrow or buy a PAR meter and test their PFO HQI's themselves - they will be pretty shocked when the see the numbers.
And as for anyone that is trying to use a LumenBright 12" off the water, well you are not using them as recommended by the manufacturer. Need to go up a couple inches unless you literally have them pressed against each other - them maybe 12" will be fine. "Every inch counts."
I am going to post some shots of 400w tanks that are clearly thriving when I return home this evening. Everyone has seen these pics before and you will see coral literally 4 inches under the surface of the water growing at an enormitous rate with gleaming color. These LumenBrights are plenty strong with 250's for sure. Those requiring more light of a 400w bulb just need to be more careful in terms of acclimation. I am certainly not trying to push 400w bulbs as they are not for an inexperienced reefkeeper that does not know how to diagnose potential problems or the thresholds for certain coral we may keep in our tanks. 250's will be plenty fine for most people.
I want you to think this through clearly as you have read the thread and have seen many tanks with 400w 12K Reflux that are obviously flourishing.
I am not trying to create an argument, but I definitely disagree that coral are will die at the top half of the tank simply because you are using 400w bulbs. I definitely feel you need to be a bit more careful in acclimating coral.
I personally have 2 -400w 12K Reeflux over my 156g and my coral look very vibrant and are growing as would be expected.
I tend to reduce photoperiods whenever I get new coral or decide to start moving things around. When I reduce photoperiod I literally mean down to 3-4 hours per day for 3-5 days increasing by an hour and going through the 3-5 day cycle again until I am back to my original photoperiod which has been between 6-7 hours. If you want to speed up this process, it is your own inpatience and you risk the life of our coral. Proper acclimation is so important and I have yet to lose a coral when acclimating in this way.
I think you are on the right path as far as considering the dimmables as you can reduce the amount of light during these times when you need to acclimate.
In the recent past I have done many tests of different bulbs and ballasts and found an LFS owner that was running a 250w 12K bulb on an ARO ballast. To both of our surprise and him more than me, we were reading between 350-450 1" above the surface on 3 different ARO and 12K ballast combinations. I explained that the reason your coral is not doing as well is because you are ignorant to what the bulb and ballast combination is actually putting out. Without a meter, he would have never known and would have kept this set up and blamed it on the bulb most likely instead of the ballast. There is so much of this on Reef Central today and people are talking about something without "any" concrete evidence as to what is really goign on.
I do realize that many people are not going to fork over $250 for a PAR meter, however if you did you would better be able to tell what is actually going on with your ballast and bulb combination.
ARO's do not fire 12K's well also. At least the 3 ballasts I tested. 250w CV ballasts have been testing over 1000 par 1" above the surface as opposed to 350-450 on the ARO's. Do you see the differences here?
People just assume that an electronic is an electronic and a HQI must be more powerful by the nature of it. This is just not the case and bulbs require the right ballast to perform optimally. I would imagine an Icecap ballast performing well with a 12K but I have not tested it. I do know that EVC electronic ballasts will fire a 12K with high PAR readings - 850 1" above the surface as I own one. Not as high as CV ballast but respectable.
12K bulbs were meant to be run on CV ballasts. That is just the way of it. If you want the color and PAR that was intended by the bulb manufacturer, which in my words is "like swimming on a reef on a sunny day", then you need to run them on CV ballasts. Basically a perfect combination of blue and white light. Great for photographs, particularly white balancing the photos that is often difficult with bulbs that are too blue.
For reference again regarding PFO HQI ballasts - we were getting numbers that were 450 1" above the surface with 12K bulb 14" above the surface. This test was done with a Lumenarc though so I would imagine at least a 15% - 20% increase if we tested the PFO HQI's under a LumenBright. That would still be more than half less than running the bulb on a CV ballast. PFO HQI's are the biggest waste of money, electric bill wise. Besides they are honking big looking more like a stereo amp than a ballast and man are they heavy.
Tell your buddies to borrow or buy a PAR meter and test their PFO HQI's themselves - they will be pretty shocked when the see the numbers.
And as for anyone that is trying to use a LumenBright 12" off the water, well you are not using them as recommended by the manufacturer. Need to go up a couple inches unless you literally have them pressed against each other - them maybe 12" will be fine. "Every inch counts."
I am going to post some shots of 400w tanks that are clearly thriving when I return home this evening. Everyone has seen these pics before and you will see coral literally 4 inches under the surface of the water growing at an enormitous rate with gleaming color. These LumenBrights are plenty strong with 250's for sure. Those requiring more light of a 400w bulb just need to be more careful in terms of acclimation. I am certainly not trying to push 400w bulbs as they are not for an inexperienced reefkeeper that does not know how to diagnose potential problems or the thresholds for certain coral we may keep in our tanks. 250's will be plenty fine for most people.
dja1980
Active member
Jim, thanks again for the thorough response. Believe me, thinking this through clearly is exactly what I’ve been doing for the last several months… between going back in forth on e-mails with other reefers, reading countless threads, reviewing past & present TOTM’s, and comparing data from Sanjay’s site, I think I’m finally getting my lighting decision narrowed down.
Even before finding this thread, I was roughly at a 70% / 30% split in my decision of going with the Coralvue ballasts over PFO’s. Now that I’ve read so much about the LB’s I’m closer to 95% sure I’m going to go with the Coralvue ballasts. However, I would really like to be able to compare these combos with my own eyes as opposed to going on recommendations alone before I make my final decision.
I couldn’t agree more.
This is exactly what I suspected… thanks for answering.
This is exactly what I was looking for in my first post… didn’t know if anyone had ever compared the two combos. So my assumptions were correct to some extent… only I assumed:
HQI + 12K ReefLux + LA = more par
CV + 12K ReefLux + LA = less par
BUT, when you throw a LB into the equation…
HQI + 12K ReefLux + LA = equal or less par
CV + 12K ReefLux + LB = equal or more par
Your findings are even better than I expected! I think this has put another nail into the PFO coffin, IMO!
I was actually thinking about purchasing one that I could share with them. I can definitely see how owning one would be very beneficial.
Exactly. I don’t think it’s fair to comment about the spread of the LB’s UNLESS you have them mounted at the recommended height.
I’m looking forward to seeing these… Thanks again!
Last edited:
bubbletip2
Premium Member
Depends on what you want to grow. If you want to keep SPS on the bottom or clams for that matter, 400w bulbs would be appreciated by them. However, if you want a mixed reef with LPS and Softies on the lower 6-8 inches then 250's would be just fine. If you are definitely going ot have softies, you really need to be careful with the 400w bulbs. It is all relative to what kind of tank you envision and the type of coral you plan on growing. If you gave me a little more information for what you had in mind as your aquascape, I can better give you my thoughts of which bulbs woudl work best. If you can compromise light loving SPS or clams not being on the bottom, than 250's will be fine for just about any tank configuration.
I want to point out that I am referring to 12K Reeflux. My answer may be different depending upon if you plan to use 20K,14K,10K, or 6500K Bulbs and from which manufacturer as well. All of this plays a role. Again if you can be more specific of what you had in mind, I could be of more assistance.
Bringing this back to testing, it is impossible to say for sure what your lights are putting out without a way to test for it. I have had areas that I was sure were low in PAR, then to find out that I was getting numbers above 300 there. I would have never guessed that and if I decided to place softies there, they may die, and I would not know why unless I had a way to measure.
It's funny how we spend all this money on different lighting setups, water test kits, and expensive coral, but reefkeepers are so hesitant to grab a PAR meter. It will certainly last as long as you take care of it and have it calibrated whenever necessary. I really would like to see more reefkeepers using these devices because we are too reliant on everyone else to do this testing. Test things out yourselves so you can validate things and know what is best for your situation. I feel that testing tanks that are running with water is much more telling than open air tests that don't have anything to do with what is happening in our tanks. Just some of my thoughts on the matter.
I want to point out that I am referring to 12K Reeflux. My answer may be different depending upon if you plan to use 20K,14K,10K, or 6500K Bulbs and from which manufacturer as well. All of this plays a role. Again if you can be more specific of what you had in mind, I could be of more assistance.
Bringing this back to testing, it is impossible to say for sure what your lights are putting out without a way to test for it. I have had areas that I was sure were low in PAR, then to find out that I was getting numbers above 300 there. I would have never guessed that and if I decided to place softies there, they may die, and I would not know why unless I had a way to measure.
It's funny how we spend all this money on different lighting setups, water test kits, and expensive coral, but reefkeepers are so hesitant to grab a PAR meter. It will certainly last as long as you take care of it and have it calibrated whenever necessary. I really would like to see more reefkeepers using these devices because we are too reliant on everyone else to do this testing. Test things out yourselves so you can validate things and know what is best for your situation. I feel that testing tanks that are running with water is much more telling than open air tests that don't have anything to do with what is happening in our tanks. Just some of my thoughts on the matter.
wfgworks
Premium Member
I was planing on doing a mixed reef but more on the lines of SPS. I wanted to keep clams as well and will be going with the Reeflux 12ks.
I had an SPS tank before which was only 24" deep but my new tank will be 30" tall. It seems once you get to the 30" mark, many seem to recommend 400watts if going the sps/clam direction.
I had an SPS tank before which was only 24" deep but my new tank will be 30" tall. It seems once you get to the 30" mark, many seem to recommend 400watts if going the sps/clam direction.
melev
Well-known member
I have 250w SE bulbs over my tank that is 30" tall, with SPS, clams, zoanthids, anemones etc... It has been that way for 3.5 years with mere spider reflectors and my corals grew well. It's the other stuff that happens to my tank that screws up growth progress, but I just bought LuminBrite reflectors that will be here in the next 48 hours.
- Status
