New Master Sticky

[snorvich]

We have created a new master sticky called Fish Parasites that gives information about diagnosing and treatment of the most prevalent parasites that can be found on marine fish. That sticky has links to the appropriate section for each major parasite and have been reviewed by Reef Central Staff. These links are locked but not stuck; the master is locked and stuck so it will always be at the top.

We are planning to "unstick" the existing stickies. We have found over time, that folks post questions and their own issues in these stickies and they do not always get the level of service that we would want our members to get. All new issues will be near the top so folks with expertise in that area can help.

Thanks for your assistance and patience with this new system.

 

[snorvich]

bump

 

[Deinonych]

Thanks for putting this together, Steve!

 

[snorvich]

thanks Chris. As you are one of the major contributors to this forum, I hope you will find it useful.

 

[Joe0813]

wow looks like you guys put a lot of time into all that... thanks

 

[snorvich]

wow looks like you guys put a lot of time into all that... thanks

You are most welcome. There is another diagnostic one that we are considering. I will post it below.

 

[snorvich]

Diagnosis of Problems

Diagnosis of Problems

Diagnosis of Problems

Tiny white dots on body or fins (looks like salt)
Research:
a) Marine Ich (parasite)


Gold, brown or rust colored patches on body or
generally a light colored sheen over the body
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)


Tiny black dots on body or fins
Research:
a) Black Ich (parasite)


Raised white bumps on body or fins which looks lumpy
Research:
a) Lymphocystis (viral)
b) Fungal Infection in marine fish


Excessive mucus on body or gills
Research:
a) Brooklynella (parasite)
b) Marine Flukes (parasite)
c) Uronema (parasite)


Ragged, torn, or missing fins
Research:
a) Fin Rot and Tail Rot (bacterial)
b) Marine Ich (parasite)
c) Ammonia Poisoning in marine fish
d) Uronema (parasite)
e) Brooklynella (parasite)


Cloudy eye(s)
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Fin Rot and Tail Rot (bacterial)
c) Marine Ich (parasite)
d) Marine Flukes (parasite)
e) Bacterial Infection in marine fish
f) Brooklynella (parasite)


Holes or pits on face, head, or lateral line
Research:
a) Head and Lateral Line Errosion "HLLE"


Fuzzy white or brown patches on body or fins
Research:
a) Fungal Infection in marine fish
b) Columnaris (bacterial)


Open sores or lesions on body
Research:
a) Marine Flukes (parasite)
b) Brooklynella (parasite)
c) Bacterial Infection in marine fish
d) Uronema


Raised or missing scales
Research:
a) Dropsy (bacterial)
b) Bacterial Infection in marine fish



Stringy thread-like attachments on anus
Research:
a) Thread worms (parasite)


Stringy thread-like attachments on body
Research:
a) Anchor worms (parasite)


Fish is scratching on rocks or substrate
Research:
a) Marine Ich (parasite)
b) Marine Velvet (parasite)
c) Marine Flukes (parasite)
d) Anchor worms (parasite)


Fish is rapidly breathing or gasping
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Brooklynella (parasite)
c) Marine Flukes (parasite)
d) Bacterial Infection in marine fish
e) Ammonia Poisoning in marine fish
f) Marine Ich (parasite)
g) Uronema (parasite)


Fish is lethargic and/or hiding
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Head and Lateral Line Errosion "HLLE"
c) Dropsy (bacterial)
d) Bacterial Infection in marine fish


Fish is swimming erratically
Research:
a) Marine Ich (parasite)
b) Marine flukes (parasite)

Fish is twitching
Research:
a) Marine flukes (parasite)

White stringy "poop"
Rsearch:
a) internal parasites (parasite)

 

[crissie]

This is very good, being able to cross-reference the symptoms should make diagnosis much easier, especially between fungal and bacterial infections.

 

[snorvich]

Thanks. We will add that to the Master sticky. Hope everyone finds it useful.

 

[alprazo]

Snorvich,

I would like to start by stating that I truly appreciate the efforts you have put into the forum. There are few on the board that are as dedicated as you.

I do take issue with the posting of an "authoritative thread" and then closing it without allowing comment. Even the so called "gold standard" treatments deserve comment and are altered from time to time.

You recently posted that chloroquine will devastated the bacterial filter, kill off the normal flora of the fish and alter digestion. You also quoted Billsreef who said in another closed post that CP will severely depress nitrifying bacteria.

I have been using chloroquine in humans since 2002 and was an early poster of my experience with its use on this board. I have never experienced an antibacterial effect in humans, fish, and I question its effects on the filter.Yes it is an antibiotic, but I have no knowledge of it being antibacterial.

In fact a pubmed search on chloroquine and antibacterial activity failed to cite pertinent sources for me. I also failed to find anything on a journal search linking Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira, Nitrosococcus, Nitrosolobus, Nitrobacter, and Nitrocystis (nitrifying bacteria) with chloroquine.

I just ask in the future that we take a more scientific approach to the posts we make, especially on this board and allow comment for others to make observations and corrections. Debate and questioning the norm is fundamental to science and I thought the purpose to this forum.

Thanks

Alprazo

 

[snorvich]

Snorvich,

I would like to start by stating that I truly appreciate the efforts you have put into the forum. There are few on the board that are as dedicated as you.

I do take issue with the posting of an "authoritative thread" and then closing it without allowing comment. Even the so called "gold standard" treatments deserve comment and are altered from time to time.

You recently posted that chloroquine will devastated the bacterial filter, kill off the normal flora of the fish and alter digestion. You also quoted Billsreef who said in another closed post that CP will severely depress nitrifying bacteria.

I have been using chloroquine in humans since 2002 and was an early poster of my experience with its use on this board. I have never experienced an antibacterial effect in humans, fish, and I question its effects on the filter.Yes it is an antibiotic, but I have no knowledge of it being antibacterial.

In fact a pubmed search on chloroquine and antibacterial activity failed to cite pertinent sources for me. I also failed to find anything on a journal search linking Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira, Nitrosococcus, Nitrosolobus, Nitrobacter, and Nitrocystis (nitrifying bacteria) with chloroquine.

I just ask in the future that we take a more scientific approach to the posts we make, especially on this board and allow comment for others to make observations and corrections. Debate and questioning the norm is fundamental to science and I thought the purpose to this forum.

Thanks

Alprazo

First, you should read all of the forwarded sticky links. CP was mentioned positively in two places. However, as I indicated above, you are more than able to present positions either in the CP thread or any other thread you wish to start.

However, if you are going to quote me, please do so accurately. I have said:

" Why I do not advocate chloroquinine phosphate (or related)
Posted 02/08/2014 at 11:45 AM by snorvich
The problems/issues I have with chloroquinine phosphate (or related) are:
1. Dosage is anecdotal and is unclear
2. Half life of the drug is not defined
3. No way of testing current concentration
4. Drug may disassociate and release the Phosphate radical
5. Long term effect on fish has not been studied
6. Some fish are negatively affected
7. In humans, drug resistant strains have resulted
8. Counterfeit supplies of the drugs exist

There are some circumstances where chloroquinine phosphate (or related) is the only feasible solution; however, in general, I advocate the more traditional approaches to parasite eradication (other than hyposalinity)."

We do not intend to open those threads or links, but as always we encourage your posts on the subject.

 

[snorvich]

And, we also included this from Billsreef who is a marine biologist:

"Additional information from Billsreef (a highly experienced marine biologist) who has extensive experience with this method:

"I want to throw a couple of observations at you based on my experience with chloroquine diphospate with large numbers (thousands) of fish. It is very stable, which limits the need for testing, and has been shown in the literature (and my experience validates this) to be very effective with a single dose for a 20 day treatment period. Water changes can easily be done with predosed water in order to maintain dose concentration. Makes it actually easier to dose than copper. While it does indeed severely depress the nitrifying bacteria (chloramX is great stuff here), I've never had problems with the fish in relation to digestion and gut bacteria. Personally the only problem I have with it is the difficulty in sourcing it in less than kilogram quantities"
"

 

[alprazo]

I apologize. My intent was not to incorrectly quote you. So for others reading this thread, I have copied the text I was referencing.

My post was not for or against the use of CP, I actually have not use it for some time. I was trying to state that some of the information in the master sticky could be incorrect and thought that comment or debate should be allowed.

Other downsides include the cost and the fact that these drugs are devastating to bacteria (the biological filter will stop, whereas with copper, the biological may continue) and invertebrates (which is very similar to copper).

As a treatment for the hobbyists' marine life, it has the disadvantages noted above. But as a prophylactic it is very disadvantaged since it can also kill off the norma flora of bacteria inside the fish's digestive track. My viewpoint, while very controversial to some is that one should not treat prophylactically but only observe in quarantine. This causes the fish to lack effective digestion of its food, even leading to death if these bacteria can't recover. It is essential when treating fish to provide their immune system maximal nutrition while providing the parasite itself the most lethal environment.

 

[snorvich]

As I have said numerous times, with the exception of prazipro, I am against prophylactic treatment of fish with drugs because long term effects are uncharacterized. This includes but is not limited to CP or any other drug such as any form of copper. Bill's comment above could only be construed as positive.

But, again, I strongly encourage you to critique, criticize, or comment by creating any thread you wish or adding to the existing thread on CP.

 

[alprazo]

As I have said numerous times, with the exception of prazipro, I am against prophylactic treatment of fish with drugs because long term effects are uncharacterized. This includes but is not limited to CP or any other drug such as any form of copper. Bill's comment above could only be construed as positive.

But, again, I strongly encourage you to critique, criticize, or comment by creating any thread you wish or adding to the existing thread on CP.

It is not the a disagree with your thoughts on prophalaxis at all. I just wanted to make clear that as far as I know, chloroquine, though an antibiotic, does not have antibacterial activity, and I cannot find literature to support the claim that it effects the bacterial filter or normal flora of the fish's digestive tract. I thought that this was important to point to clarify associated with the reference and not buried as a year old thread.

Anyway, point made, thanks for not deleting these posts. Most newspaper corrections end up hidden beneath a car ad toward the back of the paper and my letters to the editor rarely get published.

Thx again for your dedication to this site and the care of these animals.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Great job, as usual, Steve! Thanks!

 

[gone fishin]

Very comprehensive and in a very useful format. Thankyou to all who made this possible.

 

[mkoop]

Thanks for all of the hard work that was put into this. This will help countless amounts of individuals.

 

[SammyL]

Thank you for all of your hard work.