NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

I did this to my tank a month or so ago and it's worked great. One question I have for people that use this method though, do you feel that because of this your skimmer has less access to some of the proteins that collect on the surface? Since everything is so calm in my overflow (megaflow) and it draws water from under the surface I find that the water in the overflow can get quite a nasty film. Also since the water in the sump chamber that the overflow empties into is so calm, that also gets a film on it. Anyone else experience this?
 
im interested in hearing responses to this as well. im planning on using the herbie style on my 30g, and im close to the point of having it drilled.
 
I know that when my surface isn't being skimmed well (flow goes low because of junk building up in my external over flow) then the surface gets a film of junk on it. It doesn't look good and always motivates me to clean the overflow out.
 
The film is pretty easy to remedy... just drop the water level lower in the overflow so you'll get more turbulence and in the sump, just direct the flow just below the surface to create some turbulence and that should solve your scum problem. ;)
 
On this overflow drain that herby has made, where exactly do they gate valves go? Are there 2, and do they go in line in between the sump and main tank attached to both drain lines in the overflow?
 
I did this to my tank a month or so ago and it's worked great. One question I have for people that use this method though, do you feel that because of this your skimmer has less access to some of the proteins that collect on the surface? Since everything is so calm in my overflow (megaflow) and it draws water from under the surface I find that the water in the overflow can get quite a nasty film. Also since the water in the sump chamber that the overflow empties into is so calm, that also gets a film on it. Anyone else experience this?

Mine does not do this.
 
We used this method on our new 75 and it has to be one of, if not THE, best ideas I've ever come across. No messing about with standpipes, no noise from the overflow (if you have the water level set high) and zero splashing into the sump. Bravo!

Overflow and drain plumbing.

Gatve valve and plumbing in to sump.

We have a gate valve on our return pump, a Quiet One 4000, because we thought we might have to turn it down a bit if the 'Herbie' drain did not handle the flow. What a waste of a gate valve!

Cheers,
M & C
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11609172#post11609172 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trmiv
I did this to my tank a month or so ago and it's worked great. One question I have for people that use this method though, do you feel that because of this your skimmer has less access to some of the proteins that collect on the surface? Since everything is so calm in my overflow (megaflow) and it draws water from under the surface I find that the water in the overflow can get quite a nasty film. Also since the water in the sump chamber that the overflow empties into is so calm, that also gets a film on it. Anyone else experience this?

Try lowering the water level in the overflow so that it gets mixed around more from the water spilling into the overflow
-OR-
Try raising the water level in the overflow slightly so that the water just barely flows into the "emergency" drain pipe (if you are using one) so that the surface water in the overflow gets skimmed down the emergency drain pipe.
 
Please see diagram below:

1. Can I eliminate the emergency overflow box, so I don't have dry space in my tank

2. Will Herbie's method ruin my intention of skimming from the display tank's surface directly into recirc skimmer?

3. Any other suggestions?

openloop2.jpg
 
I can't comment on the gate valve on the return line. I just don't have experience with it. I don't know why it is necessary. Does it put extra strain on the return pump? Reduce its life span? To match the skimmer flow rate?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If both your surface skimmer heights are the same, then you will have water over flowing into both overflow boxes in equal amounts. Right? The purpose is to have all the water going into your primary drain with the gate valve on it. The backup is a backup for a reason, and it is normally located within the same overflow box as the primary in case the primary gets clogged and your wated level rises.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eliminate the Emergancy overflow box. Put both drains in one overflow box because that is how it will work most effectivly.

You might shorten the drain pipe in your overflow box, and then adjust the level of water with the gate valve. That is the idea. If it is to tall then you can still get the vortex.

Also, if you make your drain pipe detachable, you know pressfit (no glue) maybe even threaded, you can always make an adjustment to the drain pipe height. You can still remove it, sawing off a little more and shorten it until you reach a desired length.

------------------I would be carefull keeping the skimmer out of the sump, especially with your return going directlly into it.
First, can the skimmer handle the complete flow of the tank, with out water comming out of the top of the skimmer? Maybe that is what the gate valve on the return is for, but it seems like a lot of things need to happen right all the time in order for it to work.
Things in a tank can change, flowrates, bulid ups inside the pumps and tubes
Second, what happens if you have a skimmer over flow just due to anything happening randomly. Many people have come home to an over active skimmer before and thanked the aqaurium gods that our skimmers were in the sump.
Third, back to skimmer flow capacity. When the power shuts off can the skimmer handle all the flow easily from the tank? If it can handle it when the power is on then I am sure you are ok.

I know I repeated a lot, but some things are worth repeating.
 
I will read through your tank thread soon, but just wanted to clarify that the drawing has the static water level shown. The idea is that the overflow box for the emergency drain is indeed higher than the main drain. The reason I didn't put them in the same overflow box is because I only have 2 holes drilled in the tank total.

Looking at it again, however, I don't believe the second box is necessary, like you said. Just a standpipe with gutter guard around the top would work I think.

The skimmer is a recirc, and the open loop flow is only 200gph, so I would hope the skimmer could handle it.

Good idea on the drain pipe being detachable.

Thanks for the comments, I'll revise and repost.
 
I read through this monster thread last night, and found one question that was asked several times but never answered completely.

Is it possible to use herbie's method and also feeding an external skimmer? e.g.

bulkhead -> T fitting ->
vertical piping -> gate valve -> skimmer
horizontal piping -> gate valve -> sump

Someone said that it might have problems since herbie's method is pretty sensitive to water levels, weather, etc, and adding another gate valve with skimmer will make it even worse.

Has anyone actually tried it and know how well it works?

Thanks.
 
The comments I read regarding your issue hyolee were that the T fitting will draw air through the emergency standpipe, like a big venturi. I have not tried it though.

I have a similar situation where I only have one hole per overflow box. My drawing above shows how I plan to use the second overflow box.

I would also love to hear comments on whether anyone has actually tried the T fitting Herbie Ultra mod.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11914782#post11914782 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hyolee
I read through this monster thread last night, and found one question that was asked several times but never answered completely.

Is it possible to use herbie's method and also feeding an external skimmer? e.g.

bulkhead -> T fitting ->
vertical piping -> gate valve -> skimmer
horizontal piping -> gate valve -> sump

Someone said that it might have problems since herbie's method is pretty sensitive to water levels, weather, etc, and adding another gate valve with skimmer will make it even worse.

Has anyone actually tried it and know how well it works?

Thanks.

It works no problem. :) The most important thing is your baffling. Once you have a baffled system where the area in which the drain pipe dumps never changes levels then you are set since the water level should never essentially change in that area where you have your drain pipes. I have my skimmer gravity fed using the Herbie method without any problems.

I have the correct baffling system in my sump and I also have an auto top off system to replenish the system so that everything runs smoothly and I never worry about my pump running dry if I'm away. You don't need to have an auto top off system for it to work though, you just need to baffle it correctly where your water is returning to the sump. Of course, it's a given that you need to replenish your water on a regular basis so your return pump doesn't run dry. :)

Peace,
John
 
I have two pipes. One is the actual drain pipe (off of this I have a T fitting with one edge of the T sending water to my skimmer) and the other is just the backup overflow. So two pipes go to my sump from the overflow and one is T'd off to send water to my skimmer as well.

The one that is T'd off has a true union ball valve on it. :) I also have a ball valve on the inlet of my skimmer.

Hope that helps.

Peace,
John
 
Yes that helps... Okay, now I get it. Both you, John (Rufio) and hyolee have separate drain pipes (submerged), and "emergency" overflow pipes all the way to the sump. You don't have an emergency overflow pipe and a drain pipe going into a T, then down to your skimmer/sump.

I only have 2 holes (6' apart) near the bottom of the tank. Please comment on rev3 drawing below. How will this work:

openloop3.jpg
 
Hey Golden Avalon,

Your schematic looks like it will work fine. The one thing I think you omitted (and I'm sure b/c you wanted to keep the schematic clean) is that the drain pipe back to the sump is not T'd off to supply the skimmer as well as the drain itself. It just looks like you've got all the flow going directly through the skimmer. Of course, if your skimmer can actually handle the flow from the return pump, then it would be find to have it this way, but most people's skimmer's generally can't handle 700+ gallons flying through it due to turbulence. If it can, then go for it. :)

Also, a thing to note is that you definitely want to have the gate valve/ball valve after the T off point. So, what you want is this, drain pipe heading to sump, a T PVC (one leg of T going to skimmer, and other leg heading back to sump), then gate valve/ball valve on the leg heading back to the sump.

Peace,
John
 
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