NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[agave60]

I'm using the Herbie method on my 180 with one internal overflow. The main return is 1.5" and the emergency is 1". I notice a fluctuation in the water level inside the overflow; in the morning the level in the overflow is right at the point where the emergency pipe starts, when I get home from work the water level inside the overflow is anywhere between 4 and 5" below the morning level. I've read through this thread and found that some were experiencing something similar, but I didn't see any suggestions to fix it. I have tried to raise and lower my emergency pipe length, but the problem continue. I would also like to say that I am using an ATO with float switch in the sump and the sump level does not fluctuate. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated; I love the silence but the inconsistent overflow level is driving me crazy.

Thanks,
Carlos

 

[Los]

Herbie and Herbie Quiet Reef Fans-

I'm designing my 360 gallon, which is being made at Miracles as we speak, around Herbie's design. Here's a picture of the returns:

and here's the whole tank and sump:

Anyway, my question is whether a Dart sump return (which will probably push about 2,500 - 2,800 gph after head loss) is going to necessitate one 1.5" internal diameter pipe or 2 x 1.5" ID pipes? I have a third 2" pipe ready as a backup, but it was suggested that I may not need both 1.5" pipes. If anybody has experience with this, I'd love their input.

BTW, if anyone is interested, the thread for the tank is at:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1335781&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

The thread is a bit heavy on graphics, because of all the CAD designs, so be forewarned.

Cheers and thanks in advance for everyone's help.

Los

 

[rdmpe]

I have two darts on my 180g system. IME, a single 1.5" pipe is sufficient to handle the dart flow just fine. My sump return dart splits from a 1.5 to two 1" before going into the tank.

On your drains - it looks like you have two drains with ball valves? I've heard that ball valves are very difficult to "tune". I've only used gate valves and I've found that the water level is extremely sensitive to the valve position. I've also only used one drain. It may be a little more difficult with two drains involved.

I have a 1.5" drain handling a dart sump return with a lot of flow. IME, the fully submerged drain valve can handle all of this flow while nearly closed. It's a little crazy but the 1.5" valve is closed to the point that the opening is maybe 1/2" across. The siphon that is formed from the submerged drain can handle much more flow than my dart could ever put through it.

 

[Los]

Thanks. That's good to know Rdmpe. I very well may just use one of the two 1.5" drains then and keep the second as yet another emergency backup.

I'll also look into getting gate valves rather than ball valves. Thanks for the heads up on that.

Los

 

[Herbie]

Hey all,
Just stopping by to say hello.

agave60..........
Thats something that has always had me wondering too. I once thought it may be from slight variables with the power supply co. But our a/c water pumps work on a true sine wave.........so slight variations in the power supply should not change the pump rate. I now believe it may be linked to barometric pressures and ...........dont laugh, but I think the monthly and nightly lunar/moon phase may have something to do with it.........like the tides. Thats just my theory.

Los..........
I am in awe. Awesome planning, nice cad work, and a 360 !!! Nice! I dont remember reading, but I am assuming this will be "in-wall".
Also, good call rdmpe. I think a gate valve/valves for this style overflow should be considered manditory. Ball valves are just a frustration, and will become harder and harder to adjust. Eventually they wont want to adjust at all.

BTW, I am most humbled by the large number of reefers that have adapted this overflow method and to some very large and very $$$ costly custom built tanks. I guess its working.

Good luck to all..........
Cheers...........Herbie

 

[agave60]

Herbie,
Thanks for the reply and the great idea you have shared with us. I will continue to use your method, even with the small fluctuations in the overflow. I guess it's a normal thing and I shouldn't worry too much about it.

Thanks,
Carlos

 

[Los]

Herbie-

Thanks for the complement. I have gone ahead and changed my plans to now include gate valves (instead of ball valves) to regulate flow. You have made a lot of wives happy. That means a lot of husbands are happy. Thank you!

Cheers,

Los

 

[Myka]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11972122#post11972122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SanFranTodd
3. What's everyone using as the strainer pipe? I saw both the Perforated Rigid Tubing and the Suction Screen mentioned - but no testimonies...

I have the same question...I don't think this has been answered...?

I'm just plumbing my 75g cube, and I'm going to use this Herbie design. I have to make my own external overflows (I'm going dual 1") and drill the tank though, so I can do as I want.

Also, since I won't be using a RR overflow, is there a reason to use a u-tube style return? I can easily drill a return while I'm at it... what are the pros/cons of u-tube return/bulkhead return?

Cheers!

 

[Herbie]

Hi,
I would not be using a "u-tube" overflow with this method. It can be done, but imho, it is risky.
I had Jeff at LifeReef make me a custom "u-tube" overflow to my specs to use for this overflow method. I was not comfortable with the safety factor. But it was quiet!
Its a physics thing. As the water rises in the tank/overflow, the flow slows down dramatically with a u-tube overflow. If you read through this long thread, it has already been talked about and debated. The final outcome was that "u-tube" overflows were not "safe" enough to use with this silent overflow method with the emergency back-up drain.
I would recommend to get your tank drilled.
Marine depot sells some nice strainer pipes that are "slip" or "threaded".

HTH...........Herbie

 

[rdmpe]

You can run a return into the tank through a bulkhead, but the return line should always come up to the water surface so that you can have a siphon break. Otherwise, when the power goes out your display will siphon down into the sump & flood. Don't rely on a backflow preventer for this - they will fail and you'll end up with a flood.

I use the perforated rigid screen from aquatic eco. I use a 2" diam. piece which slides perfectly over a short 2" piece of PVC pipe. It works great. I have several screens made up so that when one needs cleaned I just slide it off and slide a clean one on. Soak the cruddy one in vinegar and it cleans up easily.

 

[Megalodon]

Can somebody tell me if I'm doing these Herbie drains correctly and in the right proportions?

A - 3/4" overtop PVC return manifold
B - 1" bulkhead and strainer leading to external overflow box
C - 1" Herbie backup overflow drain
D - 1" Herbie drain and strainer
E - External glass overflow box
F - 1" Spaflex backup drain pipe (left)
G - 1" Spaflex drain pipe
H - 3/4" Spaflex return pipe
I - 1" Spalfex drain pipe (right)
J - 1" Spaflex backup drain pipe (right)
K - ½"gate valve teed off from return
L - ½" Spaflex refuge feed from return
M - 20-gallon glass refuge
N - refuge light
O - 1" drilled bulkhead/refuge overflow
P - 3/4" Spaflex refuge drain
Q - 3/4" Spalfex refuge backup drain
R - 20-gallon glass sump w/ large return area
S - Baffles more than 1" apart
T - Eheim 1262 return pump
U - AquaC EV-180 protein skimmer
V - Drain area with filter sock

* White pipes are dirty tank drain water

* Grey pipes are clean return water

* Pink pipes are backup only and won’t usually have water in them

 

[Myka]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12416584#post12416584 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Herbie
Hi,
I would not be using a "u-tube" overflow with this method. It can be done, but imho, it is risky.
I had Jeff at LifeReef make me a custom "u-tube" overflow to my specs to use for this overflow method. I was not comfortable with the safety factor. But it was quiet!
Its a physics thing. As the water rises in the tank/overflow, the flow slows down dramatically with a u-tube overflow. If you read through this long thread, it has already been talked about and debated. The final outcome was that "u-tube" overflows were not "safe" enough to use with this silent overflow method with the emergency back-up drain.
I would recommend to get your tank drilled.
Marine depot sells some nice strainer pipes that are "slip" or "threaded".

HTH...........Herbie

Hey Herbie,

I replied, but for some reason I see my reply is no longer here...?

I wasn't talking about a u-tube overflow, I was talking about a u-tube return. I see a lot of people using u-tube returns instead of drilling, even if they are having to get their tank drilled for overflows already. I have to drill my tank for overflows, and I don't see a reason to not drill for returns as well...do you?

Also, are there any guidelines in determining the size of the overflow box if a bulkhead is used to feed the overflow box? Or just big enough to fit the pipes in it?

 

[kitaguy]

Hey - does anyone have any pictures of this set-up using both main drain and emergency drain going out the back of the tank? I have a 30G oceanic and the bottom can't be drilled.

Will it be ok to just have a strainer out of the bulkhead and then 90 elbows down to the sump? The tank is 20" high with a custom overflow. I'd put the emergency drain just at about 1/2 inch below the overflow teeth, but how far up from the bottom would you suggest I drill the hole for the main return bulkhead?

 

[Myka]

Look at Herbie's "Gallery" for pics of that type of set up.

 

[kitaguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12558464#post12558464 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Myka
Look at Herbie's "Gallery" for pics of that type of set up.

Thanks - which picture exactly? I saw the overflow but I was hoping someone out there actually had drilled a tank with hard PVC this way.

 

[Todoubled_00]

So... what if you used the Durso method and at the end of the pipe in the sump put a s bend. A smooth u turn heading back up and immediatly heading back down. The S is totally submerged. Now at the top (highest point) in the s bend drill a hole and connect a length of vinyl tubing(1/4" diameter?) this should act as a vent for the air to escape and yet it is not big enough to make a gurgle. It would have to be ran back up a ways, but its a small enough line that is shouldnt be obtrusive. Maybe?

 

[crsswift70]

kitaguy, that's how i just did mine on my new 75. I have the main drain down low about 3 inches from the edges, then the emergency up high about 4.5" in from the side edge, 3" down. i then built a 7" long by 6" deep box for them. i just filled it last night, but it all seems to be working well. Tested the emergency drain and it works as it should. the reason i went high low, is that i wanted as small a overflow box as i could get in the corner. By staggering the height, i could get closer to the edge. If you want a pic, i'll try and post one tonight.

 

[bkvreef]

I have the gurgle buster and it is louder.
I have 2 overflow boxes on the back of my tank and I'm confused with how the gurgle buster is different than Herbies?
Is it just the air hose in the cap of the gurgle buster that is making all of the noise?

So if I put a new cap on that is not drilled it would be quieter?

 

[cudaruner]

Hard to see this without pics. Show us please.

 

[bkvreef]

So if I'm understanding this right.
I presently am using these one in each of my two overflows (not Reef Ready)
http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/HGB_construction.html
If I am understanding this right the only thing Herbie is really doing is dialing down the overflow flow rate by regulating the valves. By doing this the water backfills up the drain tube and thus the splashing causing from the drop is not there?

How could I do this for a system that is not reaf ready?