NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!
- Thread starter Herbie
- Start date
I have a 65 reef ready corner overflow tank that I'm trying to setup and I have a problem that I foresee happening and I'd like to get some feedback on it.
If one uses Herbies method and has a section in their sump (return pump section)where the water level would be constant, except for evaporation, and one uses let say a filter sock on the inlet pipe (inlet section of the sump) and the sock slowly clogs, as most do, wouldn't the water level change in the return pump section? Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.
If this is true then my question is how would one know how much of the water level change is evaporation and how much is the clogging of the sock. Which brings me to my problem. If I use a water top off system in the pump return area (supposedly constant water level) couldn't the the salinity balance slowly change?
Does anyone follow that?
a photo of my sump setup below, 20 gallon long
If one uses Herbies method and has a section in their sump (return pump section)where the water level would be constant, except for evaporation, and one uses let say a filter sock on the inlet pipe (inlet section of the sump) and the sock slowly clogs, as most do, wouldn't the water level change in the return pump section? Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.
If this is true then my question is how would one know how much of the water level change is evaporation and how much is the clogging of the sock. Which brings me to my problem. If I use a water top off system in the pump return area (supposedly constant water level) couldn't the the salinity balance slowly change?
Does anyone follow that?
a photo of my sump setup below, 20 gallon long
Last edited:
rdmpe
New member
The drain chamber and refug chambers would remain constant depth since their depth is controlled by the baffles. As evaporation happens, if not replaced, the pump chamber level will drop.
If you use a filter sock on the drain and the filter sock begins to fill up, then that will also drop the water level in the pump chamber since that water is being "stored" in the filter bag.
Your ATO will replace the "stored" water in the filter bag with fresh water. I would be surprised if the quantity of FW would really impact your salinity. But if you keep your filter sock clean that will not be as much of a problem
or just don't use a filter sock.
The filter sock issue would be the same with or without the herbie method, but if the filter sock fills up, it would probably affect the "balance point" of the drain so might require some slight adjustment of the gate valve.
Personally, I only use a filter sock once in a while such as when I'm blowing off the rock with a turkey baster.
If you use a filter sock on the drain and the filter sock begins to fill up, then that will also drop the water level in the pump chamber since that water is being "stored" in the filter bag.
Your ATO will replace the "stored" water in the filter bag with fresh water. I would be surprised if the quantity of FW would really impact your salinity. But if you keep your filter sock clean that will not be as much of a problem
or just don't use a filter sock.The filter sock issue would be the same with or without the herbie method, but if the filter sock fills up, it would probably affect the "balance point" of the drain so might require some slight adjustment of the gate valve.
Personally, I only use a filter sock once in a while such as when I'm blowing off the rock with a turkey baster.
rdmpe,
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with your conclusions. However, I filled the tank/sump with fresh water to test the herbie method, OMG it was so silent and I really like that advantage. What concerns me is the day to day fluctuations in water level in the over flow chamber, which, during my testing, DIRECTLY affected the level in the return chamber (middle), which is where I think I should put my ATO system. In other overflow systems (durso etc) that chamber stays pretty constant except for evaporation which is nice because the ATO takes care of that to a greater degree of accuracy. With herbies method I'm afraid the use of the ATO will be used not only for evap. but to large degree fluctuations brought on by herbies method???
Am I worrying to much about this? Am I correct in installing the ATO in the middle return chamber? If I don't use a sock but a block sponge to mechanically filter the water would that work better? I believe I need something to catch all the unwanted crap that gets stirred up or floats around the tank...right or wrong? Do you use herbies method and do you use any mechanical filtration in your sump on a permanent day to day basis?
Sorry for all the questions. This is my first large (other than a nano) reef tank and I just want to get as much right the first time.
Thanks
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with your conclusions. However, I filled the tank/sump with fresh water to test the herbie method, OMG it was so silent and I really like that advantage. What concerns me is the day to day fluctuations in water level in the over flow chamber, which, during my testing, DIRECTLY affected the level in the return chamber (middle), which is where I think I should put my ATO system. In other overflow systems (durso etc) that chamber stays pretty constant except for evaporation which is nice because the ATO takes care of that to a greater degree of accuracy. With herbies method I'm afraid the use of the ATO will be used not only for evap. but to large degree fluctuations brought on by herbies method???
Am I worrying to much about this? Am I correct in installing the ATO in the middle return chamber? If I don't use a sock but a block sponge to mechanically filter the water would that work better? I believe I need something to catch all the unwanted crap that gets stirred up or floats around the tank...right or wrong? Do you use herbies method and do you use any mechanical filtration in your sump on a permanent day to day basis?
Sorry for all the questions. This is my first large (other than a nano) reef tank and I just want to get as much right the first time.
Thanks
rdmpe
New member
Hmm, I responded yesterday but I don't think it went through for some reason. I think your sump/drain setup should work really well. Since it is draining into constant-depth chambers, the balance (depth in overflow) should be really steady I think.
How long did you run the FW test? After adjusting the gate valve you have to let it run for a while for it to find it's balance. I'd give it a couple of hours. Then if needed make a very slight valve adjustment and let it run again for a while.
There will be some fluctuation also as time goes by and the pipes get coated inside, etc. but it's no big deal. I really don't think you'll have any problems with the ATO issue. Your setup is ideal for this system as far as I can see.
Mine is less than ideal since my drain comes into the same chamber that the return pump is in. So evap reduces the backpressure on my drain and causes the water level in the overflow to drop until the evap reaches the point that activates my ATO. Even with that and the minor fluctuations in the overflow level, the system overall is fine and I almost never have to adjust the valve. Once every few weeks I might give it a tiny tweak but that's it. I've been using this setup since Dec. '05.
For everyone using this system - every once in a while, you should close and open your valve over a large range to keep buildup from freezing the valve in position. Otherwise you end up with a valve that will not adjust, at least in my experience.
How long did you run the FW test? After adjusting the gate valve you have to let it run for a while for it to find it's balance. I'd give it a couple of hours. Then if needed make a very slight valve adjustment and let it run again for a while.
There will be some fluctuation also as time goes by and the pipes get coated inside, etc. but it's no big deal. I really don't think you'll have any problems with the ATO issue. Your setup is ideal for this system as far as I can see.
Mine is less than ideal since my drain comes into the same chamber that the return pump is in. So evap reduces the backpressure on my drain and causes the water level in the overflow to drop until the evap reaches the point that activates my ATO. Even with that and the minor fluctuations in the overflow level, the system overall is fine and I almost never have to adjust the valve. Once every few weeks I might give it a tiny tweak but that's it. I've been using this setup since Dec. '05.
For everyone using this system - every once in a while, you should close and open your valve over a large range to keep buildup from freezing the valve in position. Otherwise you end up with a valve that will not adjust, at least in my experience.
Thanks for the answers and opinions, I appreciate it.
I'm thinking of putting a skimmer in the inlet section (left side). Provided I can get one to fit what is the best way to hook it up? Just connect a seperate pump to it and house the pump in the same inlet compartment and let the skimmer water return to the same compartment? Would this thinking upset the balance of herbies method? Or, is there a better way to hook up a skimmer. This would be my first skimmer so....???
Please don't feel like you have to answer these questions I'm sure I could find the answers someplace but if you don't mind that would be great.
Thanks.
I'm thinking of putting a skimmer in the inlet section (left side). Provided I can get one to fit what is the best way to hook it up? Just connect a seperate pump to it and house the pump in the same inlet compartment and let the skimmer water return to the same compartment? Would this thinking upset the balance of herbies method? Or, is there a better way to hook up a skimmer. This would be my first skimmer so....???
Please don't feel like you have to answer these questions I'm sure I could find the answers someplace but if you don't mind that would be great.
Thanks.
rdmpe
New member
Well, different skimmers want to be plumbed different ways, and everyone has an opinion on the type of skimmer they like. It would be best to pull the skimmer water from the chamber that the display drains into. The skimmer shouldn't cause any problem with the drain system. The skimmer output - you would probably want to allow it to run right back into the same chamber because you'd want the water to go over the chamber baffles to help get rid of microbubbles.
Do a lot of reading on skimmers, there are a lot to choose from...
Do a lot of reading on skimmers, there are a lot to choose from...
painkiller1009
Member
So I'm about to do the herbie method on my new build and had a few questions.
1. I have a external skimmer so want to run it off the overflow. Is this possible without fluctuations in flow?
2. Can I make a manifold / 3 tees off the main overflow and tee off and run other equipment? Like skimmer, reactors?
Here is a not so good pic of what I'm trying to accomplish with all this.
1. I have a external skimmer so want to run it off the overflow. Is this possible without fluctuations in flow?
2. Can I make a manifold / 3 tees off the main overflow and tee off and run other equipment? Like skimmer, reactors?
Here is a not so good pic of what I'm trying to accomplish with all this.
rdmpe
New member
Would probably work, but the skimmer might add a little complication to the system balancing itself.
When you need to take anything off line to clean it, refill reactors, etc. you will have it go unbalanced, will probably fill up and start using the emergency drain, nothing wrong with that though really.
I think that overall though it might be simpler to feed the reactors from another small pump like a maxi jet. But you can always set it up off the drain and change to a separate pump later if needed.
When you need to take anything off line to clean it, refill reactors, etc. you will have it go unbalanced, will probably fill up and start using the emergency drain, nothing wrong with that though really.
I think that overall though it might be simpler to feed the reactors from another small pump like a maxi jet. But you can always set it up off the drain and change to a separate pump later if needed.
painkiller1009
Member
I decided just to run the skimmer off the overflow to make things easier. I'll use the maxi jet I'm using now for the reactors.
Todd March
Premium Member
I don't get how anyone can use this idea with an ATO system?! I tried with both 1" and 1.5" standpipes and a gate valve, but no matter what it made my overflow level fluctuate slightly (which followed no rythm or reason), and therefore my sump level flucuated as well, creating havoc with my ATO... Fluctuating salinity, tickin' off my SPS corals, No, noâ€" too much of a price to pay for total silence (and man it is SILENT!)...
Do any one you guys have this system going with an ATO and rock steady salinity levels?!
It also lowered my ORP and pH due to the loss of the O2 being introduced via the air flow within the previous Durso...
Back to the Durso for me...!
Do any one you guys have this system going with an ATO and rock steady salinity levels?!
It also lowered my ORP and pH due to the loss of the O2 being introduced via the air flow within the previous Durso...
Back to the Durso for me...!
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
woah... fluctuating levels? i'm about to implement the system for myself and would hate to end up with this prob... you might want to try posting to beananimal's thread as well...
Todd March
Premium Member
Tony, read through this threadâ€"I'm not the only one...!
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