tonyespinoza
Premium Member
So what's the solution?!
NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!
- Thread starter Herbie
- Start date
Todd March
Premium Member
I don't know...?! That's why I posted, to see how others have worked around it. I've seen some posts that say, "Doing a different method of ATO", but they didn't elaborate...
I'm back to my Durso. Makes a little more noise, but keeps my sump level rock steady, and my ATO system perfectâ€"salinity is always right where I want it...
Untamed12
New member
The solution is to close of your gate valve(s) until the water in your overflow box(es) rises up until water just trickles over the emergency drains.
If you really want, put dursos on your emergency drains to keep them quiet...but really there should be such a small amount of water going down the emergency that it shouldn't make any noise.
That will solve your level problems and make your ATO work perfectly in the sump.
If you really want, put dursos on your emergency drains to keep them quiet...but really there should be such a small amount of water going down the emergency that it shouldn't make any noise.
That will solve your level problems and make your ATO work perfectly in the sump.
Todd March
Premium Member
And this keeps the level in the overflow box rock steady as well....? Always just barely trickling into the emergency drain...?
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
yeah - that would be similar to bean animal's design. he has an "open channel" in addition to the emergency and the full siphon. the open channel just gets enough water to coat the perimeter of the pipe and that trickle is self-adjusting. at least, i hope it is... 
Todd March
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14413488#post14413488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tonyespinoza
yeah - that would be similar to bean animal's design. he has an "open channel" in addition to the emergency and the full siphon. the open channel just gets enough water to coat the perimeter of the pipe and that trickle is self-adjusting. at least, i hope it is...
Tony, can you provide a link to Bean's thread...?
PowermanKW
New member
Well, I read most of the thread. I am having problems with noise and micro bubbles with my new fuge/sump/plumbing. This sounds like it is just what I need.
Questions:
I understand what the emergency drain is for, but it seems many people running this don't need it. Unless they use it as a adjuster. I know micro switches can fail, but what About instaling one at the top of the tank to stop the pump if the overflow fails???
I split my returns going to my sump and my fuge. I'm just trying to figure out whether it would be best to put the gate valve before or after the tee off for the fuge. It is just a half inch line. Putting it after the tee would assure constant flow to my fuge, but it might interfere with level setting.
Last question: I like areation, but can't stand bubbles in the tank. What has the jury decided on the amout of gas exchange using this method??? I have an EV-120, and will be going to a Bullet 1. Both draw copius amounts of air.
Questions:
I understand what the emergency drain is for, but it seems many people running this don't need it. Unless they use it as a adjuster. I know micro switches can fail, but what About instaling one at the top of the tank to stop the pump if the overflow fails???
I split my returns going to my sump and my fuge. I'm just trying to figure out whether it would be best to put the gate valve before or after the tee off for the fuge. It is just a half inch line. Putting it after the tee would assure constant flow to my fuge, but it might interfere with level setting.
Last question: I like areation, but can't stand bubbles in the tank. What has the jury decided on the amout of gas exchange using this method??? I have an EV-120, and will be going to a Bullet 1. Both draw copius amounts of air.
I justed went through a total redesign using this method thanks to Untamed I created a thread about two weeks ago and happy to report a positive outcome. Given my drain runs, sump location, etc. This was probably one of few methods that provided the outcome I desired.
Umtamed advice provided invaluable "know how" and I was glad I completed the redesign.
I created a thread about two weeks ago and happy to report a positive outcome. Given my drain runs, sump location, etc. This was probably one of few methods that provided the outcome I desired. Umtamed advice provided invaluable "know how" and I was glad I completed the redesign.
Todd March
Premium Member
The emergency drain it seems, is really integral for adjusting levels (I'm still fiddling with this). I tried this method with a friend's new tank, with no emergency drain (he wanted to live dangerously), and the levels (overflow, sump) fluctuated way, way too much (every 1/2 hour). Wouldn't recommend it...
I would not run it after your your Tee, you need more control for the syphon. Run a separate valve for your fuge. You'll be happier and things will be easier to adjust, trust me...!
Gas exchange with a syphon? There is NONE! That's of the advantages to a Durso or Stockman over Herbie's methodâ€"though with a good skimmer, and a baffle or two for water to thin out over in your sump, or a slight drop into your overflow, it's probably not all that big of a deal; though when I see the heavy amount of bubbles my Durso makes, it makes ya think....
PowermanKW
New member
Well my thought was the same as others I assume. Less plumbing. But I agree with you now. Thinking of adjusting it would be much better with the emergency. Even for routine valve cycling, turning off pumps for feeding, and cleaning the over flow, a stand by drain would be nice. So that's settled.
I plumbed my drain line with a 1.5 to 3/4 inch tee off. since it is just gravity, I put it at the bottom of the pipe to get flow. So I didn't see it being different if it was down stream of the gate valve, so that is how I will plumb it.
Well..... not sure why you call it a siphon. I have read the debates in here about terminology...... anyway.... Right now I just have a mageflow standpipe running straight to my sump. It's terribly loud. Decreased flow and it helped a lot. My sump has TONS of micro bubbles and it's loud too. I am using sponges now, but want to get rid of them.
So..... My point is that I can see a lot of areation just from the drain water mixing so effectivly with air. By removing that mixing with the Herbie method, I was wondering how that would affect my O2 levels and CO2 exchange.
(Ijust reread your statement and see we are saying the same thing)
I have increased my sump size significantly, and my skimmer introduces a lot of air. I don't see it being a huge deal either.
Thanks a lot for your input, I welcome any other advice.
wardworld
Gonna Need A Bigger Tank
Fluid Dynamics and Herbie Overflow
Fluid Dynamics and Herbie Overflow
Working on the Herbie overflow for my new tank. I will bring the two returns under my tank, then add an elbow for the pipe to feed from there to a T which will then run one pipe out through a wall to drain into the sump.
My question, instead of having a gate valve under both overflows, can I use one gate valve after the T to regulate the water in the overflows???
Thanks,
Fluid Dynamics and Herbie Overflow
Working on the Herbie overflow for my new tank. I will bring the two returns under my tank, then add an elbow for the pipe to feed from there to a T which will then run one pipe out through a wall to drain into the sump.
My question, instead of having a gate valve under both overflows, can I use one gate valve after the T to regulate the water in the overflows???
Thanks,
PowermanKW
New member
I'm no expert, but I would put the valve after the tee. I would think it would be difficult trying to tune two separate drains. Use one valve to do both. If anything you could put a ball valve on both drains before the tee if for some wild reason you would ever want to shut off one overflow or the other.
PowermanKW
New member
HELP!
My Herbie does not work. So I did what I said above. My return line splits off to my fuge. It tees on the bottom of the drain line.
I plumbed the valve before the tee as was mentioned above. Now, instead of sending water to the fuge, it actually siphons it. My skimmer section is about 3 inches shallower than my fuge section.
I made a vacuum break, but all that does in inject air. With the pipe below the wanted, it siphons. Above, it gurgles. Made a hole in the pipe going down, air. Then drilled a hole in the top of the elbow, still a ton of air.
I'm not sure if putting the valve after the tee would work. It might still siphon, but I doubt it. But again, I do think it would be hard to tune.
I could somehow route water off a pump (return), but that would defeat the whole point of setting my fuge up the way I did. (Skimmer/return/fuge)
Right now, it is just running above the water line. Loud and bubbly as ever. Any ideas of the best way to go???
My Herbie does not work. So I did what I said above. My return line splits off to my fuge. It tees on the bottom of the drain line.
I plumbed the valve before the tee as was mentioned above. Now, instead of sending water to the fuge, it actually siphons it. My skimmer section is about 3 inches shallower than my fuge section.
I made a vacuum break, but all that does in inject air. With the pipe below the wanted, it siphons. Above, it gurgles. Made a hole in the pipe going down, air. Then drilled a hole in the top of the elbow, still a ton of air.
I'm not sure if putting the valve after the tee would work. It might still siphon, but I doubt it. But again, I do think it would be hard to tune.
I could somehow route water off a pump (return), but that would defeat the whole point of setting my fuge up the way I did. (Skimmer/return/fuge)
Right now, it is just running above the water line. Loud and bubbly as ever. Any ideas of the best way to go???
PowermanKW
New member
bump
PowermanKW
New member
Bueller....
Bueller....
Bueller....
Has anyone ran a Herbie with a split return???
Bueller....
Bueller....
Has anyone ran a Herbie with a split return???
PowermanKW
New member
Never mind. Took a shot in the dark. For future interest.
My skimmer section is 3 inches or so lower than my fuge.
When I turned everything on My skimmer section actually siphoned out the fuge section. I placed my gate valve BEFORE the tee to my fuge. I didn't want the fuge to effect my level tuning of the overflow. However, since there is no air, it created a siphon.
I tried everything, but at the end of the day, I still had noise and bubbles.
I decided to put the gate valve AFTER the tee for my fuge.
***DISCLAIMER***
If you don't have a split return, you don't have to worry about this. Since I do it is a problem. I have a very low flow to my fuge, so I didn't think it would affect tuning that much. If you have a very high flow through your split, this might not work out so well for you.
Any way..... It is BRILIANT!!!
All good. No siphon. Works as advertised. Completely silent, and not hard to tune at all.
My skimmer section is 3 inches or so lower than my fuge.
When I turned everything on My skimmer section actually siphoned out the fuge section. I placed my gate valve BEFORE the tee to my fuge. I didn't want the fuge to effect my level tuning of the overflow. However, since there is no air, it created a siphon.
I tried everything, but at the end of the day, I still had noise and bubbles.
I decided to put the gate valve AFTER the tee for my fuge.
***DISCLAIMER***
If you don't have a split return, you don't have to worry about this. Since I do it is a problem. I have a very low flow to my fuge, so I didn't think it would affect tuning that much. If you have a very high flow through your split, this might not work out so well for you.
Any way..... It is BRILIANT!!!
All good. No siphon. Works as advertised. Completely silent, and not hard to tune at all.
jnb
Premium Member
It does work
It does work
I have an overflow with 2 drains - the second one is just for insurance - it has never gotten wet except recently while tuning the Herbie method. This was too easy and did not even require a gate valve - just installed a valve on the main drain and tuned it to the point where water was approaching the higher second drain and then backed off a hair - that is all I have ever done - and for the last month no more gurgling. Nice fix - I cannot believe how quiet the system has become. It is also a miracle given that I have at least 20+ motors in my system. 20 is crazy.
6 light fixture fan motors (2 ATI Powermodules)
3 external fans driven my ACIII temp
4 tunzes
1 BK Mini 180 gen2 skimmer
1 LMIII
1 fuge Maxi
1 return pump (that manifolds to carbon, reactor, smaller tank, and fuge - so saved having 3 more pumps)
2 pumps for CA reactor
1 pump for ato
It does work
I have an overflow with 2 drains - the second one is just for insurance - it has never gotten wet except recently while tuning the Herbie method. This was too easy and did not even require a gate valve - just installed a valve on the main drain and tuned it to the point where water was approaching the higher second drain and then backed off a hair - that is all I have ever done - and for the last month no more gurgling. Nice fix - I cannot believe how quiet the system has become. It is also a miracle given that I have at least 20+ motors in my system. 20 is crazy.
6 light fixture fan motors (2 ATI Powermodules)
3 external fans driven my ACIII temp
4 tunzes
1 BK Mini 180 gen2 skimmer
1 LMIII
1 fuge Maxi
1 return pump (that manifolds to carbon, reactor, smaller tank, and fuge - so saved having 3 more pumps)
2 pumps for CA reactor
1 pump for ato
Robb in Austin
New member
robertifly
Premium Member
I followed the BeanAnimal design in the thread above exactly on the plumbing and use the second drain to feed my fuge. Never have I ever seen anything work as well. The only thing I changed was I put the skimmer collection box on the outside of the tank and use a slim skimmer box only 1.5" deep to allow more room inside the tank.
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