New reefer sanity check

[DougieMan]

Ok so this is my first proper post on here so be gentle (but honest).


Quick sanity check please, setting up a reef tank (fish only for a little while) with the following tank

Got a 48"x18"x18" rimless tank in 12mm glass, circa 250l. It's on an purpose made aquarium stand but I'm going to put a layer of foam pads between anyway, yoga mat or similar to cushion the tank.

Got a 36"x 12"x 18" tank for a sump and a spare one to make baffles from etc, total water volume should be around 330l. Is this ratio of sizes about right with other systems.

Return pump is a 4000lph DC return pump with controller.


This is where is need the most input. Ive had what I think is sound and good advise from the LFS but wanted to just confirm.

I'm going to be drilling the tank for the return and overflows, the advice was as it's a relatively shallow and narrow tank to not use a weir and just use a rear drilled drain ( x2). Along with 2 returns I plan to drill the required 4 holes along the back of the tank grouped together at about 12" - 15" from either end. The drains are 25mm and the returns 20mm inner diameter I think and have strainers on the drains.





My question is about height of the drain holes i need to drill as I know this will basically set the water level in the tank and decide on noise levels. Given the drain tank connector requiring the hole being about 36mm in size I was going to drill the hole (center) about 55 -60mm from the top rim. Is this about right, where should the water level be sitting in this situation. Should it fully submerge the connector or only partially. I will also have gate/ball valves on the drains and returns to tune as needed.



As for the sump, given the 12" width restriction in the cabinet I have come up with this design which allows for in sump reactors or other equipment if needed, its nothing new and been done many times before. Basically both drains empty into one area which then overflows up and into the filter sock. This then flows into the skimmer and heater chamber, through a set of baffles and then into the return pump chamber. The water height in the skimmer chamber as I understand should always be the same, it should be about 10 or 11 inches in this sump. Another question, do I need the first set of bubble traps/baffles directly after the skimmer.



As for Rock and filtration.

I was going to try and get the walt smith rock and along with a couple of live rock pieces to start the process off. I already have some spare ceramic media I can put in the sump to bulk up on bio filtration. Would this be ok or is the more expensive seeded real reef stuff any better.

thanks in advance


Chris

 

[billdogg]

Nope - not sane at all. In fact, this entire website appears only in your mind - kinda like your post:lolspin::wave::lolspin:


Or... a mod will release the content of your post so the rest of the voices in your head (that's us) can take a look:eek1::wave::eek1:

Welcome to Reef Central!

 

[Misled]

Good to go, don't question my sanity!!!

[welcome]

 

[ericarenee]

Good to go, don't question my sanity!!!

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

+1


And no reason to question a non existing Delusion ..


Welcome to Reef Central where all of our money ends up fish poop

 

[DasCamel]

Sanity? Fish tanks?)

 

[tkeracer619]

Welcome to RC!

I see one major issue so please hear me out.

Forget the advice your LFS gave you for your drains, adding valves on your drains how you have planned is setup for disaster. Their advice may have simply not been understood and lost in explanation but it isn't right.

With that pump you have potential for 15x turnover, that's a lot. Especially on two 3/4" drains. I know you can dial it back with the dc pump but in my experience your drains are too small for a 65gal tank with a simple gravity drain, combine the with your pump and you're looking for a flood. Not only are they too small they will sound like a toilet unless you go full siphon and you cannot safely go full siphon without an overflow box and an emergency drain.

I would definitely use an overflow box with a weir. Then I would decide between two setups and drill the tank based on what you choose. Look up a "Herbie" and "BeanAnimal" drain setups. This will allow you to safely run a full siphon. Once you choose what you want we can help you get it setup right.

If going with one of those style drains you will want to avoid running any accessories off of your return pump. I strongly recommend you take a look at a eheim compact 2000 for a return pump. This pump will give you years of reliable service and is roughly the same price. Eheim is a trusted name in aquarium pumps. Please don't cheap out on a return pump, it can make or break a system. In your case you would get between 5 an 6x turnover.

You don't need the baffles after the skimmer. Just the ones before the return chamber. Don't worry about expensive bio media. If you already have some you can use it, it isn't necessary but it won't hurt anything. If it's used I'd skip it.

 

[BigBlueTang]

Welcome to RC!



I see one major issue so please hear me out.



Forget the advice your LFS gave you for your drains, adding valves on your drains how you have planned is setup for disaster. Their advice may have simply not been understood and lost in explanation but it isn't right.



With that pump you have potential for 15x turnover, that's a lot. Especially on two 3/4" drains. I know you can dial it back with the dc pump but in my experience your drains are too small for a 65gal tank with a simple gravity drain, combine the with your pump and you're looking for a flood. Not only are they too small they will sound like a toilet unless you go full siphon and you cannot safely go full siphon without an overflow box and an emergency drain.



I would definitely use an overflow box with a weir. Then I would decide between two setups and drill the tank based on what you choose. Look up a "Herbie" and "BeanAnimal" drain setups. This will allow you to safely run a full siphon. Once you choose what you want we can help you get it setup right.



If going with one of those style drains you will want to avoid running any accessories off of your return pump. I strongly recommend you take a look at a eheim compact 2000 for a return pump. This pump will give you years of reliable service and is roughly the same price. Eheim is a trusted name in aquarium pumps. Please don't cheap out on a return pump, it can make or break a system. In your case you would get between 5 an 6x turnover.



You don't need the baffles after the skimmer. Just the ones before the return chamber. Don't worry about expensive bio media. If you already have some you can use it, it isn't necessary but it won't hurt anything. If it's used I'd skip it.

I agree fully with Mark, the gurgling noise is awful! (Trust me, he'd know :lmao: )

Eheim pumps are awesome, and their pumps are gospel everywhere. They're quiet and reliable.

You do need an overflow box with the setup you've shown us, I would highly recommend either the synergy reef overflow(I have this one) or an overflow from modular marine on eBay. Modular marine will be a little cheaper but the build quality of the synergy reef is incredible. They both have a very low profile in your tank.

Other than that.. Mark pretty much summed it up... In the future, if you're not 100% sure about things, a quick question won't hurt anyone's feelings



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DougieMan]

Hi,

First of all thanks for the replies and info.

i'm not new to aquariums in general (just reef), Ive had tropical for a good while so the eheim name is not new to me and the quality they have.

In in the UK so premade overflow/weirs are not the easiest to get hold of however a sheet of acrylic is. The reasons why I took the LFS advise was roughly as follows. Ive seen many similar sized tank for sale in various places with no overflow box and just a straight none siphoned drain plus its is only a 60g tank and so still small on the grand scales of things so the flow rate shouldn't cause too much noise. How noisy are the xaqua and ocean life ones, anyone tried them yet.

I've already looked at an researched about overflow boxes etc before approaching the LFS so I understand the herbie and beananimal methods of draining and in reality prefair them. If I constructed a overflow box, would you recommend an internal or external box, if its external, do you bond the acrylic to the glass as well as with the connectors as i would imagine there is a lot of weight and so leverage on the bond or connector into the tank.

what about overflow box placement and design in this situation, how wide would the box need to be and should it sit in the center.

If I went with a herbie and an internal box and rear drilled tank, are there any issues with having the siphon bends in the overflow then sending the pipe straight out the back of the tank and then down into the sump rather than straight down through the bottom of the tank.


Cheers.

 

[DougieMan]

also,

How far from the surface would the full siphon need to be and would a down turned 90 degree elbow be sufficient to maintain the siphon from the horizontal pipe leading out the back of the tank

 

[tkeracer619]

Hi,

First of all thanks for the replies and info.

i'm not new to aquariums in general (just reef), Ive had tropical for a good while so the eheim name is not new to me and the quality they have.
I strongly believe using high quality equipment, particularly in areas like heaters and return pumps is important.

In in the UK so premade overflow/weirs are not the easiest to get hold of however a sheet of acrylic is. The reasons why I took the LFS advise was roughly as follows. Ive seen many similar sized tank for sale in various places with no overflow box and just a straight none siphoned drain plus its is only a 60g tank and so still small on the grand scales of things so the flow rate shouldn't cause too much noise. How noisy are the xaqua and ocean life ones, anyone tried them yet.

I have not used those particular overflows myself. You should be able to find a sign shop that can make you the overflow box out of acrylic or you could do it yourself with a little bit of effort.

I've already looked at an researched about overflow boxes etc before approaching the LFS so I understand the herbie and beananimal methods of draining and in reality prefair them. If I constructed a overflow box, would you recommend an internal or external box, if its external, do you bond the acrylic to the glass as well as with the connectors as i would imagine there is a lot of weight and so leverage on the bond or connector into the tank.

An internal overflow box would be easiest to setup. If you do want to go external I would use glass. If you want to construct an external out of acrylic you need two bulkhead gaskets per bulkhead and the external box needs to have 4 sides and a bottom. You then gasket between the flange of the bulkhead inside the tank, another gasket between the tank and box, and finally the nut on the inside of the box. Silicone works to attach internal acrylic overflows due to positive pressure. You never want to rely on an acrylic to glass silicone bond where the bond is in tension. They will pull apart.


what about overflow box placement and design in this situation, how wide would the box need to be and should it sit in the center.

You can place the box wherever is most pleasing to your eye. Center or corner both work. On that size tank either would work fine but you may find a corner easier to work with. If you go to the reefcentral home page you will see a bunch of calculators along the side. they tend to be pretty accurate. For 5x turnover you would want around 5" of linear overflow. This does not include the weir teeth.

If I went with a herbie and an internal box and rear drilled tank, are there any issues with having the siphon bends in the overflow then sending the pipe straight out the back of the tank and then down into the sump rather than straight down through the bottom of the tank.

Nope, it will work just fine!

Cheers.

:beer:

 

[tkeracer619]

also,

How far from the surface would the full siphon need to be and would a down turned 90 degree elbow be sufficient to maintain the siphon from the horizontal pipe leading out the back of the tank

Typically half way down inside the overflow box is a good idea for your main siphon. A down turned elbow would be fine, just make sure it has a screen on it. Just make sure you have room to get the fittings in and out of the overflow as well as replace the bulkheads should one start to leak down the road.

I'd probably have the returns go over the side or drill them how you originally planned. Just make sure you can handle the back siphon when power goes out.

 

[DougieMan]

Sounds good, I'll make a overflow box the and fit a Herbie. It will be using 1 inch bulkhead for both drain and e drain but I'm sure this won't matter too much. I still can't understand why there is so little In the way of choice for acrylic weirs and overflow boxes in the UK.

The box will probably be 4 or 5 of inches across the front with angled sides to make up the rest of the surface skimmer and so it's not as much of an eye sore. How should this be positioned vertically , level with the rim of the tank and then maybe 2-3 inches of vertical slots as. I don't know where the water level should sit (I was thinking of about 1.5 inch from the rim of the tank) would this be about right


Cheers