New Seahorses

[barbianj]

I have a 125 gallon LPS reef and recently added male and female Kuda seahorses, as they were sold to me, anyway. Other fish are a female Melanurus, Starry Blenny, male and female Red Mandarins, and a Harlequin Filefish. We have had the seahorses just over a week, and they are already aggressively eating mysis and brine from the feeder tube. The female was a little stubborn at first, but she came around. She is very intent on hunting. I saw her eat a good sized amphipod.

I really expected to have to transfer them to a smaller tank, but they are doing so well I don't see the need. They are a lot different than I expected. I thought they would mostly sit around all day, moving around a little, but they are exactly the opposite. I'm really surprised how active they are.

They were both dark at first, but the male has become much lighter.

I did do some research before buying them, but if I'm doing anything stupid, let me know.

 

[Murderface]

looks good to me. i also had a reef with horses and they loved it, were super active and had favorite spots to hang out. as long as they are eating what you give and actively hunting they should be fine. my only advice would be to make sure that if you add more corals, make sure they are pretty chill. some aggressive corals will eat your horses for sure.
They look great!

 

[namxas]

your SH actually look like H. reidi and are quite thin. Make sure you feed them daily, as SH lack a "true" stomach and cannot hold food for digestion.

Euphyllia and SH aren't a good mix, as SH have been stung by them. Also, due to their propensity for bacterial infections, reef temp really isn't the best for even tropical SH (74*F max is best).

Just out of curiosity, is your OSFF taking prepared foods? It's extremely emaciated.

 

[barbianj]

your SH actually look like H. reidi and are quite thin. Make sure you feed them daily, as SH lack a "true" stomach and cannot hold food for digestion.

Euphyllia and SH aren't a good mix, as SH have been stung by them. Also, due to their propensity for bacterial infections, reef temp really isn't the best for even tropical SH (74*F max is best).

Just out of curiosity, is your OSFF taking prepared foods? It's extremely emaciated.

I'd agree that the OSFF is thin, but is eating very well and putting on weight. The picture is from 7/24. I ran across it at a LFS and it was already eating frozen. There were a lot of other faster moving fish in the tank, so I don't think the file was getting much. She (I think) eats Nutramar Ova, mysis and brine. The Mandarins are also taking the Nutramar. Last night the file actually ate some scallop intended for the coral. All of my fish eat twice a day.

I have always kept the reef at 78, although I know it's a little high for the seahorses, but I don't have temperature spikes.

I know nothing about seahorse ID, why do you say they look like H. reidi?

 

[SaylorsReef]

LPS is not good to keep with seahorses, neither are some of those fish. They will out compete them for food.

What is going on in the 6th picture? I'm seeing something that looks like tail rot on the tip of the seahorses tail.

 

[barbianj]

LPS is not good to keep with seahorses, neither are some of those fish. They will out compete them for food.

What is going on in the 6th picture? I'm seeing something that looks like tail rot on the tip of the seahorses tail.

I'll get a close look at the tail when I get home. I think it's a stripe. The female is not usually all black. I'll have to respectfully disagree about being out competed for food, though. They are all eating prepared foods. They are fed in the morning before the wrasse is awake, and in the afternoon after the wrasse is fed NLS pellets. If their only food source were pods, I would have to agree, though.

 

[SaylorsReef]

Here is a tank mate guide: http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/tankmates.shtml

Fast swimming fish are not recommended with seahorses. Even though your horses are eating frozen, the other fish can get to the food much faster. The fast swimming fish can also bother the seahorses and cause them to go into hiding and stop eating completely. Keep a close eye on the food situation.

 

[namxas]

I know nothing about seahorse ID, why do you say they look like H. reidi?

Take a look at the coronet...they have the "crumpled" appearance typical of H. reidi as opposed to the backswept coronet of H. kuda.

 

[barbianj]

Here is a tank mate guide: http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/tankmates.shtml

Fast swimming fish are not recommended with seahorses. Even though your horses are eating frozen, the other fish can get to the food much faster. The fast swimming fish can also bother the seahorses and cause them to go into hiding and stop eating completely. Keep a close eye on the food situation.

I understand that, but when I'm feeding, the wrasse and blenny are not a factor. They are fed first, and the seahorses and file eat together. If the wrasse wasn't fed first, it would be a different story. I can't feed the coral if the wrasse is hungry. I take my time to feed everything properly, it's a part of the hobby that I enjoy. I don't just dump food in and let them have at it.

Take a look at the coronet...they have the "crumpled" appearance typical of H. reidi as opposed to the backswept coronet of H. kuda.

I'll take a look when I get home. When I look at pictures on websites, I just don't see the difference, yet. I do know now, though, that the seahorses that we bought were not in as good of condition that they should have been, but they are doing better now.

 

[Elysia]

Not that pattern and coloration is anything to base identification by, but that male has every "non-scientific" detail of a classic reidi -- his body shape, pattern, color.... That said, the first thing I thought when I saw the female was "Man, she is thin!"

Multiple people have had trouble housing blennies with their horses. I thought that "starry blenny" was the common name for a species that was a coral nipper? In any case, it may not matter that the blenny has enough to eat; others have found that their blennies have harassed and bitten their horses anyway. Just something to be aware of, as some horses have died from these bites.

 

[barbianj]

Not that pattern and coloration is anything to base identification by, but that male has every "non-scientific" detail of a classic reidi -- his body shape, pattern, color.... That said, the first thing I thought when I saw the female was "Man, she is thin!"

Multiple people have had trouble housing blennies with their horses. I thought that "starry blenny" was the common name for a species that was a coral nipper? In any case, it may not matter that the blenny has enough to eat; others have found that their blennies have harassed and bitten their horses anyway. Just something to be aware of, as some horses have died from these bites.

Good to know about the Starry Blenny. I hadn't heard about problems with them and corals from any local reefers, many have them in their tanks. I haven't been real thrilled with him, so as soon as I catch him he's going in another tank. The reef tank is intended to be a passive tank, and he may not fit into that category.

I took a close look at the females tail with a magnifying glass, and there is nothing on it. Whew, had me worried.

 

[timinnl]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you are getting some very good advice from the people here. Please look in the org tankmank guide that is linked to you already. Since you recently added them to your tank, you might not see or realize the hidden dangers that is in your tank.

I always like to ask people if they want a seahorse tank or a tank with seahorses in them?

Do you know if they were CB, WC or TR ones? Were they QT?

Tim

 

[barbianj]

Take a look at the coronet...they have the "crumpled" appearance typical of H. reidi as opposed to the backswept coronet of H. kuda.

I had noticed the little crown when I was comparing photos. Supposedly these were CB that were eating frozen mysis. I made a newbie mistake of not watching them eat, only because they came from a good store and I bought them from the owner. When I got them home they had absolutely no interest in frozen food. I am a noob when it comes to seahorses, but not to fish. When it's feeding time, they come right out along with the File now.

As far as the OSFF goes, it's a threat level 4 on the chart. Why is that? When I found the File, I knew what I was looking at. I thought it was another fish doomed to die of starvation. It's eating extremely well in my tank and slowly putting on weight. I don't think that I could find an OSFF that doesn't look emaciated at first.

Like any other segment of this hobby, there is conflicting information. I see people posting incorrect information in this forum about gas bubble disease. Temperature is a big one. ORA states that their seahorse are raised at 75-85 degrees. Mine were kept at 82 in the LFS. My reef is 78. To top it off, ORA doesn't even raise their own seahorses.

My first intention was to set up a separate tank for them, and I will if I need to. I know there is a threat with some of the corals. I could see it being a big problem in a bio cube. Honestly, I don't think they are that stupid. They just don't go by them.

I had the impression, from this site, that they would be difficult to feed. I was prepared to get a feeding dish with a place for them to hitch and feed. That they would not be able to find food on their own. I see them as aggressive feeders and hunters.

I'm not trying to be difficult. I keep a close eye on my tanks. If I see a problem, I'll take action right away. I tried to bottle trap the Starry last night, but didn't get him. Tonight I'll take him out with his rock.

Also, since the addition of the OSFF, the Mandarins have been much happier. They spawned for the first time last night! :inlove:

 

[Faerl]

As far as the OSFF goes, it's a threat level 4 on the chart. Why is that? When I found the File, I knew what I was looking at. I thought it was another fish doomed to die of starvation. It's eating extremely well in my tank and slowly putting on weight. I don't think that I could find an OSFF that doesn't look emaciated at first.

Like anything, every situation can be a bit different. The fish you have may not ever cause a problem with your horses. They have a high risk level however because they have been known to cause that problem. The reverse is also true, even something on the list with a threat of 1 can cause problems if that particular fish happens to be overly aggressive compared to the rest of its species. It's not that you can't house them together. It's just highly recommended not to.

Like any other segment of this hobby, there is conflicting information. I see people posting incorrect information in this forum about gas bubble disease. Temperature is a big one. ORA states that their seahorse are raised at 75-85 degrees. Mine were kept at 82 in the LFS. My reef is 78. To top it off, ORA doesn't even raise their own seahorses.

There is conflicting info there. No one knows for sure what causes gas bubble disease. It's rumored that too many air bubbles but I've also seen reports conflicting that as well. The reason that the temp is recommended below 74/75 is that a lot of diseases seahorses can get will propagate heavily at temps above that. Seahorses will be perfectly happy at temps higher than 75, however they'll be more prone to diseases so why take the risk? ORA doesn't raise their own, but they have a very select number of hatcheries that they buy from.

My first intention was to set up a separate tank for them, and I will if I need to. I know there is a threat with some of the corals. I could see it being a big problem in a bio cube. Honestly, I don't think they are that stupid. They just don't go by them.

The problem is the seahorses don't always know to stay away. You've probably seen clown fish that try to host corals that sting them leaving little black marks. Seahorses can do the same thing and once they get injured a small cut can get infected easily. Add to that a higher temp where the infection can spread faster and suddenly you have a very sick seahorse.

I had the impression, from this site, that they would be difficult to feed. I was prepared to get a feeding dish with a place for them to hitch and feed. That they would not be able to find food on their own. I see them as aggressive feeders and hunters.

It depends a bit on the seahorse. They're generally lazy eaters and they have to eat several times a day because of their digestive system. They can be difficult to feed if they have to compete for food with other fish. If they don't have that competition it's not that bad.

 

[barbianj]

Took some pictures during feeding time. The first one is pretty clear, so if that helps with the ID. The female seems to be turning a lighter color.

And the OSFF, she loves the feeder tube. She measures just under 2".

 

[namxas]

As far as the OSFF goes, it's a threat level 4 on the chart.

OSFF is considered a "4" because they rarely survive in captivity...IIRC, there's a statement to that effect in the key.

 

[barbianj]

OSFF is considered a "4" because they rarely survive in captivity...IIRC, there's a statement to that effect in the key.

I'm sorry, I knew that. Just thought it was odd that there is no explanation, just a "Threat Level" number. I understand that there has to be some general guideline.

 

[namxas]

The explanation of ratings is at the end of the text portion of the article:

"0 - represents close to zero risk. There is no competition for food. The fish are mostly benthic. There is not an issue with aggression. Corals would not have the ability to sting.

1 - still pretty safe. There could be some, albeit minor competition for food. The fish will be found in the water column but are not fast swimmers, and therefore, less likely to cause seahorse stress. There are really no issues with aggression to speak of. Corals are still no danger to the seahorses although the corals may contain feeding tentacles (no sweepers).

2 - these are a bit riskier, and you should proceed with caution. Many of the fish will be more present in the water column and may have faster or more erratic swimming patterns. There may be some competition for food as well as a possible chance for aggression towards the seahorses from the fish and inverts.

3 - I wouldn't keep any of these critters with my seahorses, but you're welcome to try. 3's are on the dangerous side. The fish will not only be in the water column but often have a distinct presence. There is a good chance for food competition and aggression. The corals have the ability to sting or typically don't do well. If you're planning to try anything that is ranked as a 3, please have alternative plans to house the species if a problem arises.

4 - these specimens either have no business in a seahorse tank, or should not be kept in captive systems due to failure to thrive."

That being said, we have a pair of OSFF's in their own setup that are fat and happy. I CAN tell you that we've never had such a challenge as it was getting them weaned onto prepared foods.

 

[Peka]

sweepers).
I CAN tell you that we've never had such a challenge as it was getting them weaned onto prepared foods.

If Greg says it was a challenge for them, I would call them expert only fish....

 

[barbianj]

Like I said, I knew what it was before I bought it. Ummfish had asked to use a photo of my Queen Trigger for a talk he was giving about aquaculturing marine fish. I didn't know who he was, so before I gave him permission, I looked into his profile and ran across his thread about OSFF. I saw how difficult it was for him and others to get the fish to eat. The interesting thing to me was that he said that he did not believe the conventional wisdom that the OSFF was an obligate coralivore. In fact, I just read through his thread and watched his videos last night to get a better feel for how the male and female interact.

Anyway, what would you do if you walked into a local chain store, and found one already eating prepared food? I feel like it was cheating, but it took two days in my tank for the file to feel comfortable and eating frozen food. Since you have them, you also know how long it takes to get them to put on weight, hence the "emaciated" look.

In my case, one thing that helped WAS the light competition from the wrasse. The same thing was true when the seahorses were introduced. They eat better as a group, as far as my limited experience can tell.

As far as the reef goes, I'm not exactly sure what direction it will go. Since I have other aggressive fish I did want this one to be very passive. The Starry Blenny was removed last night. I may decide to take the euphyllia out. It's a work in progress. For now, the seahorses are eating, the OSFF is eating, and the Mandarins are spawning.