New sps Skimmerless! tank build up

[reefer44]

yes i know you can have 0 nitrates without a skimmer ( i run a 10g sps system with a nitrate reactor feeding a plenum and a phosphate reactor....and run 0 phosphates and nitrates...but in a large system this is much harder)

as far as having nitrates with a skimmer......not with the aid of the right amount of live rock and a skimmer appropriate for your bioload....but then again u probaly could pull it off and then have great growth with 15+ nitrates, right?

its false information that makes this board so hard to understand for beggining aquarist....plz look at the facts before you post
or maybe the 15 some books on reef aquariums i have are wrong...let alone the ones written specifically on the nitrogen cycle...

again this is not an arguement i just want to know how this guy feels like a skimmer wouldnt help when it has been used over and over and over and over again with better results..." it helps my biodiversity"...with no facts for support....provide some data that tells us how and why and promote growth in the hobby instead of mysteriously saying.......IM SKIMMERLESS AND I CAN MANAGE TO KEEP SPS ALIVE

brad

 

[Putawaywet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7527488#post7527488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefer44
provide some data that tells us how and why and promote growth in the hobby instead of mysteriously saying.......IM SKIMMERLESS AND I CAN MANAGE TO KEEP SPS ALIVE

brad

Sure sounds like an argument to me.

But since you brought it up....

IM SKIMMERLESS AND I CAN MANAGE TO KEEP SPS ALIVE.

So there!!!!

 

[Putawaywet]

If Jeremy wants to take a different approach what's the big deal? I say go for it.

And insinuating that he's doing the hobby some disservice just because you don't agree with his methodology is the true disservice IMO.

Brett

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

As previously stated, from "Personal Expereinces" I prefer a skimmerlass system in most cases.

I have ran many over the years, and been very happy with the low maintanince of them.

Take a Look at Inland Aquatics, they seem to do pretty good without a skimmer.

In fact, I was at a conference with Morgan Lister from Inland, and they wereraffling off a Ca reactor, Morgan turned to me and said "Is that a fancy Protein Skimmer".

So, you do not need every hightech peice of equipment to have a successful reef tank.

Ever seen a large Ca reactor hooked to the ocean?

I think my pics and Putaway wets prove you can have a nice tank without a skimmer. Maybe my corals won't grow an inch a day, but as stated, I work on tanks all day long, the last thing I want to have to do when I get off work is to have to work on my home tank.

So, to all with the kind words, thanks, and to the haters, come back in a year, and see whats up!

Oh, and my home and work are aways open to anyone that wants to see my tanks in person!

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

Oh, and don't a lot of the German Aquarists actually dose nitrates to their systems now?

And what about Steve Tyree? I know a lot of people spend big bucks for his LE corals, which are grown in what? Natrual filtered aquariums, which do not use skimmers?

 

[dvanacker]

burn....


Jeremy do you run a plenum or just a DSB.??

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

DSB, in the tank as well as the sump.

 

[Funky_Fish14]

Ok... I'll check what my nitrates are at later tonight and let you know.

My current 75g tank is running skimmerless and has been since it's start. I havent had a skimmer on it at all in that time, simply a low-flow fuge. Please tell my why this(the lower one, I sold the other) birdsnest has only managed to quadruple in size in that period:

(will snatch updated pic tonight)

In this tank, i have no sandbed anywhere in the system. All I have is a layer of sand epoxied into the bottom of the tank.

This porites colony started as a 1/4" patch in my rocks over a year and a half ago, always skimmerless, and currently it is double this size(3"x1.5" long in this pic, currently 5-6" long and 2"wide)

I also have a Crocea clam that has been in the tank through 2 upgrades, I've had it for 2 years, and it has never had a skimmer on the tank. I've never had any problems with my tank params. I also have 2 squamosas. I used to have a maxima and derasa as well, but lost them in a water change..

Yes, my calcium is low... but my sps seem to grow. Im pretty sure my nitrates are over one though(if they arent... i'd probably question my test kit). And my sps have pretty good coloration.

Not sure how you telling me my tank shouldnt be working will be accepted in my head when it seems to be the case, and as the two fellows above have shown too, it does work.


Yes, I am throwing a Deltec on my next system, but it doesnt mean I think skimmers are the only way to go. Every side has it's pluses and minuses.

As stated above, your statement 'im skimmerless and I can manage to keep sps alive' does sound like a challenge. I guess some of us just happen to have managed to work it out.

as far as having nitrates with a skimmer......not with the aid of the right amount of live rock and a skimmer appropriate for your bioload....

Yes, true, didnt think about the biological factor. My appologies for jumping to conclusions. Your preceding arguements do make sense. I appologize but my week isnt going that well, hense being so harsh.

I simply wanted to allow for realization that just cause skimmers are proven to have certain factors doesnt mean its the only way.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

Nice pics. But again, I do not want this to turn into a skimmer vs. skimmerless system debate, I simply wanted to share in the build up of my system, and possibly help others in the set up of theirs.

 

[Funky_Fish14]

Sorry... went overboard but wanted to prove my point.

Back to the topic! I cant wait to see your tank come together and how it looks a year after setup! Keeping on the thread!

Chris

 

[reefer44]

haha you guys have managed to answer every question but the one i asked......

i stated already.......you can run a nice tank with just biological filtration

my arguement is that a skimmer would assist any biological filter so why not just run it too????

see i know biological filters work....but they work even better with skimmer...and u can have many more fish

steve tyree is also the only well known aquarist that runs only biological filtration that i know of......it is easy for an advanced aquarist to set up such a system due to his understanding of water chemistry

so i dont understand what is the point to set them up without a skimmer?

the most colorful sps i have seen are all in sk

i dont want a heated debate either i just want to know why u choice not to run a skimmer...to expensive?....to much work???

yes some aquarist in germany do dose nitrates.....this is due to nitrate being a limiting factor on a reef......but it is present at .001 even after they dose i. do u understand what i mean?

i would love for someone to answer my question so maybe my opinion can change.....

sry jeremy for everyone posting there flames for me.......i didnt want it to be a debate either i jsut simply wanted to know what u thought...and i too work on tanks everyday so i understand what u mean (work at wholesale facilities as well as retail and my own maintanance company)

Brad

 

[Shawnts106]

Ever seen a large Ca reactor hooked to the ocean?

this is not the best quote...

There is a reason why our oceans dont have Ca Reactors, to sum it up... its called " Mother Nature" and she knows what the "heck" shes doing...



lol... sorry, no affence just had to say that.


There are benifits from running a system without a skimmer ... yes, however, I think we should discuss something more... Why do these people have such success without useing a skimmer?

What is their daily/weekly/monthly/yearly rutine?
Wc's? how often?
Foods? how much/what kind?

This could be interesting...


Im going to start a thread in SPS and Talk about this... Anyone who wants to join, lets hear it!

 

[Funky_Fish14]

Brad.... you were flaming too... so dont blame everyone else for flaming you. (Yes.. I flamed, I know it and I'll admit it).

"my arguement is that a skimmer would assist any biological filter so why not just run it too????"

Lol, where on earth did you say that?

"steve tyree is also the only well known aquarist that runs only biological filtration that i know of......"

Thats nice, lol... just cause hes the only well known one (that you know of...) doesnt mean he is the only one..

If you wish to prove yourself flameless, dont reply again with an arguement... I am dropping this here.

Chris

 

[phileas]

Put more corals in your tanks.

 

[oligotrophic]

Hi Jeremy,

I would say, go all out for it, for your new venture.

I hope you have read the books at Dynamic Ecomorphology - on the Environmental Gradient concept.

Everything you need to know to run a skimmerless system is documented there.

I can safely say there are differences between skimmerless and skimmed systems in terms of husbandry experience. One really needs to know what one is doing for skimmerless - the cause and effect of every single change.

Enjoy your skimmerless and I strong believe you will be able to see more of Nature in that setup.

Cheers

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7532304#post7532304 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefer44


it is easy for an advanced aquarist to set up such a system due to his understanding of water chemistry

Brad

Are you infering that I am not an Advanced Aquarist? I have only been doing this full time at a Public Aquarium for 6 years, so, I porbably do not have the expereince or understanding of water chemistry.

I think the pictures have already provedn that you can run a nice tank without a skimmer.

Again, as stated, Tyree is not the only one doing it. Have a look at Inland Aquatics. They are sucessful coral farmers and fish breeders, all being done with algae filters. They have many corals reporducing in their systems, with pocciliporas growing on the walls or wherever they decide to settle.

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7523705#post7523705 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefer44

By seeing pictures of your tank and having had many systems run on biological filter only i can tell that you have at least 1 ppm of nitrates within that tank. ?

You are the man! I am truely impressed at your ability to look at a picture on the internet, and are able to tell how much nitrates are in the water that is in the aquairum in the picture. I bet you do not even own any test kits, due to this uncanny ability.

Can you tell me the other water parameters by looking at the pics?

 

[Funky_Fish14]

Sorry... I have to laugh, those are both absolutely hilarious replies Jeremy!

 

[fishdoc11]

so I thought I'd post here for you sps guys that don't get into the other forums much!

What are you trying to say Jeremy:lol:

Very nice....I look forward to seeing pics of the progress

Chris

 

[prodman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7527830#post7527830 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jeremy Blaze


And what about Steve Tyree? I know a lot of people spend big bucks for his LE corals, which are grown in what? Natrual filtered aquariums, which do not use skimmers?

His Le corals come are originally from other peoples tanks. Thats where the beautiful pics on his site come from. He takes a portion of those corals to his tanks then sells them. Usually after they brown out and get some algae on them. Not trying to argue what your going to do with your tank. I wish you luck and would like to see the progress. I just dont think tyree is a good argument for why to do a skimmerless tank.