New Stomatopod tank - equipment suggestions?

[Tarrant]

My roommate has a 110 gallon fresh water tank I've helped with in the past but in truth I know very little about the mechanics and the like and zero about salt water tanks.

I've wanted to get a mantis shrimp for a few years now but finally got some extra cash to do so. As I'm not sure what type I will end up with depending on availability (though I'm going to hold out for some type of smasher), I wanted to set up a tank that would be safe for even a larger one.

I was thinking a 40 gallon acrylic tank, something along the lines of this:
SeaClear Rectangular 40 Gallon (36" L X 15" W X 16" H ) unless somebody has any strong recommendations otherwise. (At petco, $199).

I have absolutely NO idea what to get for pumps, filtration, lighting (low light I know but specifics), heater, what the pH, temperature, salination, etc should be SO:

If you were designing a tank for a smasher what would you put in it? I can justify spending up to around $600 probably in total, a bit more if significantly helpful/necessary and I'm leaning towards "simpler to maintain" over "cheaper" though I'd prefer compact/sleek if possible over large sumps, etc.

So: Is that a viable cash range and what equipment would you get?

Thanks all! Figured instead of trying to reinvent the wheel I'd just ask the masters. :wave:

 

[Maleci]

That should be more than enough. I would look through and decide on species before you start planning equipment. Peacocks need the 40g but most other smashers can work in significantly smaller systems which would save a lot of equipment cost. That's actually the tank I have my peacock in, although a 40 breeder from petco with a piece of acrylic on the bottom would work just as well if you are nervous about it cracking glass. Honestly the setups are pretty simple, and the seaclear tank actually comes with a cheapo single t8 fixture which is plenty for a peacock setup so you can just grab a bulb and be good to go as far as light to watch it. For heaters I would look for titanium heaters since they can withstand a beating if a large peacock gets curious. As far as flow I would say as long as it doesn't kick up the sand you are fine in general more flow doesn't really hurt anything. Filtration will be the most open ended though since there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. I know a lot of people just run hang on back filters and maybe some macro to export nutrients, some get nano skimmers. I ended up just stocking the tank with a lot of live rock to cover up the pvc burrow and got a hang on glass turf scrubber. It was kinda a trial experiment to test out turf scrubbers but it's worked out really well for the system. It has completely sucked up nitrates and phosphates in the tank so there is no algae to deal with scraping off and alleviates the need for water changes mostly, I still do them occasionally to add in trace elements into the system but don't really have a need to for nutrient export. Mostly just make sure it has a proper burrow, pvc works really well with rubble to close up the ends and test the water to gauge when to do water changes.

 

[Tarrant]

I'd like to decide on the species first but, unless this has changed lately, I remember it being fairly difficult to locate specific species so I was aiming for a "big enough to be safe" set up to accommodate whichever I was lucky enough to find. Are there better suppliers available currently that tend to have a good stock and selection?

As far as filtration, yeah, that was the largest part of my headache. Too many options. I'm aiming for ease as I'm not a big DIYer. I'd also like as little visible hardware in the tank as possible. I remember previously seeing a few good suppliers that made "all in one" type turf scrubber/etc filters in a sump system. I know they aren't that difficult to make, my roommate DIY'd one for his 110g freshwater tank but I honestly would rather buy something well made then screw around with it. I'd gladly accept recommendations on good builders/suppliers of either turf scrubber boxes or complete tank systems.

Also I live in Houston so tap water pH is about 7.8-8. Too hard? If so I'll need to grab an R/O water filter as well.

I tend to prefer smashers though I know some spearers are active as well. If it's more feasible now to purchase targeted species does anyone have recommendations for stomatopods that are more active around the tank?

 

[Maleci]

I'd go with rodi since you know it will be safe and no possibility of anything getting into the source water. As far as scrubbers santamonica has a hang on glass 1 cube per day scrubber could be built cheaper but if you want a prebuilt its a nice option and you just need to hide the air pump that drives it. Peacocks can usually be special ordered through lfs sealife inc has a few smaller florida based smashers as well regularely.

 

[Tarrant]

Perfect, thank you for the suggestions!
I also found a 24 gallon JBJ nanocube reef tank on craigslist locally that the owner was using for coral so no prior copper treatments. $150 with stand, lighting, etc. I may just grab that if I go with a smaller smasher that needs less space

I'm not sure I want to mess with corals as I have no experience but some lower light mushrooms might be workable I think to add a little pop.

 

[Maleci]

Sealife inc has havanesis which only need a 20g tank are fairly interesting and usually pretty interactive

 

[Tarrant]

Ok the O. havanensis are very nice. And come with a great recommendation for them by the expert in the field, I'm sold

I'm still thinking about getting a 30g tank just to give the bugger some more play room and water quality stability. Tank mates? Maybe a star? I've heard they usually will play nice with them.

Now I just need to decide on a tank. I'm thinking one of those with the sectioned off back compartment and throw the santa monica algae scrubber in back there to keep it out of sight.

Any recommendations from anyone that has kept havanesis on type of sand/live rock that works best? Also coral or mushrooms, good idea/bad idea? Any favorite 30g tanks with a compartmentalized back? (I was going to go with acrylic less for breakage worries than for smoothness/no seems)

 

[KusabiKuri]

The problem with most acrylic tanks is that most have bracing over the top so unless you're getting one with the rear-compartment built in (a-la aquasystem), you're kind of out of luck and AIO acrylic tanks are pretty pricey.

You could go to an acrylic store and buy the panels to make your own tank. Places here you just have to tell them the dimensions of the tank and they'll cut pieces for you that will fit together to make your tank. They can even assemble it for you for a fee. I don't think an O. Havanensis will be a huge danger to a bigger glass aquarium given the proper precautions and with a glass aquarium you could easily convert it to an all-in-one. Slap a sheet of acrylic on the bottom as well and you should be good to go.

Mantis shrimp on a whole I feel are more partial to footprint of the tank rather than total volume. A 20L has the same footprint as a 29R and in both cases you'll partition off a space for the filter section so getting a regular 29g would only provide more volume for stability and not much usable space for the mantis to wander. There are more options than just a 20L and a 29R though. Nanocubes and Biocubes are both good options and already are made for the AIO style. Just put a sheet of acrylic on the bottom and you should be fine. The cheaper versions also come with lights that aren't too powerful as well. If you want to make your own all-in-one but want more footprint than a 20L/29R can give you, there's a 30 breeder that's the same footprint as a 40b (36x18x16) but about 4 inches shorter (12" vs 16") that would likely be perfect. There is also the 33L (48x12x12) that lends itself really well to a compact AIO and offers a ton of real estate for a mantis.

In terms of corals, I would wait until the mantis has settled in before adding anything since they're partial to moving stuff around but there's no reason you can't have something like a frogspawn and mushrooms. Just place them higher up in your rockwork and you should be fine. My Smithii rarely goes higher than 2" off the sandbed unless I'm teasing him with food.

 

[Islandoftiki]

I have several AIO tanks. My largest is a 25 gallon AIO. Having a bit of experience with AIO's, I would have to suggest that you get one with the largest rear chamber possible. You're going to want/need to add things like skimmers, reactors and other goodies.

If I were to do it again, I'd get an Innovative Marine tank and glue a piece of acrylic to the bottom. The sides of the tank are thick enough to fend off most mantis hits, IMO. I love the new 16 gallon tank, but I also like the 30 gallon if you need to go that big.

One thing that's important to remember with AIO tanks. Most will run hot in the summer unless they're not covered, and then you'll probably still need a fan to help cool them. I have to run a chiller on all of my AIO tanks. The heat from the powerheads and return pumps add a lot of heat to the water.

It sure would be nice to have a sump some times...

 

[KusabiKuri]

I have several AIO tanks. My largest is a 25 gallon AIO. Having a bit of experience with AIO's, I would have to suggest that you get one with the largest rear chamber possible. You're going to want/need to add things like skimmers, reactors and other goodies.

If I were to do it again, I'd get an Innovative Marine tank and glue a piece of acrylic to the bottom. The sides of the tank are thick enough to fend off most mantis hits, IMO. I love the new 16 gallon tank, but I also like the 30 gallon if you need to go that big.

One thing that's important to remember with AIO tanks. Most will run hot in the summer unless they're not covered, and then you'll probably still need a fan to help cool them. I have to run a chiller on all of my AIO tanks. The heat from the powerheads and return pumps add a lot of heat to the water.

It sure would be nice to have a sump some times...

If only those IM Nuvos weren't so expensive! $250 for just the tank and pedestal vs $170 or so for a Biocube 14 that has lights as well. Hell for the same price as the Nuvo you could get a BC 29. But definitely not as elegant as anything Innovative Marine offers.

+1 on foresight though. Plan ahead if you think you're going to add a skimmer or anything else. In my AIO nano designs my first chamber is always big enough for at least a Hydor Slimskim Nano. You might also want to look into making a DIY media rack for your second chamber to make changing out media easier. If you want to go fancy, you could also use a CPR nano tumbler in the first chamber running biopellets and slimskim in the second chamber.

 

[Islandoftiki]

Hang on a sec. Yes, they're more expensive up front. I guarantee you'll spend less money and have more options available to you in the future if you spend the extra money on the IM tank over the Biocube.

Most of the posts I read about people with biocubes involve them trying to improve the filtration part of the tank with expensive media baskets. The other thing I hear a lot is overheating and people rigging up wacky fan setups to keep their biocubes cool. They also have a difficult time adding an ATO, which you'll probably want eventually.

Most of the posts on the IM tanks are people saying how much they enjoy it right out of the box.

That's just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure you'll eat up that $80 dollar difference trying to make the biocube something that it isn't. Then you'll upgrade to a better tank, at the expense of a new higher quality tank.

Again, my opinion. I invite you to read build threads on biocubes and IM tanks over on Nano-Reef.com and form your own opinion.

 

[KusabiKuri]

Hang on a sec. Yes, they're more expensive up front. I guarantee you'll spend less money and have more options available to you in the future if you spend the extra money on the IM tank over the Biocube.

Most of the posts I read about people with biocubes involve them trying to improve the filtration part of the tank with expensive media baskets. The other thing I hear a lot is overheating and people rigging up wacky fan setups to keep their biocubes cool. They also have a difficult time adding an ATO, which you'll probably want eventually.

Most of the posts on the IM tanks are people saying how much they enjoy it right out of the box.

That's just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure you'll eat up that $80 dollar difference trying to make the biocube something that it isn't. Then you'll upgrade to a better tank, at the expense of a new higher quality tank.

Again, my opinion. I invite you to read build threads on biocubes and IM tanks over on Nano-Reef.com and form your own opinion.

Not trying to fight you on this, but he's looking for a basic setup as someone not completely familiar with saltwater. As I see it, a Biocube or Nanocube is a true all-in-one package. For $170 or $270 you get pretty much everything right down to the lights. If he's fairly handy with DIY projects, he doesn't have to buy expensive media baskets and certainly not if he's looking to create a basic mantis setup. As for overheating, that depends on environmental factors. Here in NorCal, I don't really see any sort of overheating going on in any of those products. In addition, if heating were an issue he could get a JBJ LED system for less than it would cost for a Nuvo 16 with Skyye lights.

Don't get me wrong I love the Nuvos, but it's a higher-end tank with higher-end costs associated with it and there are a lot more equipment manufacturers catering to the size and dimensions of Biocubes and Nanocubes.

 

[Tarrant]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I went with a 29g biocube. Frankly I think the "MANTIS SMASH GLASS GRRR!" claims are a bit over-rated, especially since I'm looking at getting a 3" O. havanensis. Do you think the acrylic bottom is really that necessary? I just seems a bit excessive to me /shrug.

As far as heat load, my apartment is usually around 70 degrees and I was planning on swapping out the halide lights that came with the tank and installing LEDs to further drop the heat load. Trying to avoid a chiller if possible. For filtration in addition to a good volume of physical filtration I was going to run a Santa Monica Filtration 1 cube magnet-to-the-glass turf scrubber. My roommate's had ridiculously good results with a DIY in-sump turf scrubber on a 110g freshwater tank with really nothing else but a double handful of bioballs wrapped in a wad of physical filtration mesh near the return pump.

 

[Tarrant]

"None of the available small Odontodactylus, O. havanensis, O. brevirostris, O. latirostris require an acrylic tank. Maximum size is about 7 cm and they are actually fairly weak strikers.
Roy "

Yeah I think I'm going to go with Roy on the lack of need for acrylic.

 

[Islandoftiki]

At 70 degrees you should be just fine. My 25 gallon AIO custom acrylic G. Ternatensis tank needs a chiller. It has the main filtration pump, two Koralia Nano 425 powerheads and 72 watts of T5 HO lighting. It needs a chiller for temps over 74 degrees and we have our A/C set to 78 degrees.

 

[Tarrant]

Good info. Perhaps I'll be intelligent then and fill and run it as is BEFORE running out and dropping $250 on an LED lighting system. Maybe just get another blue strip for the evenings.

 

[Tarrant]

Ok tank w/live rock.
The little pile in the front left from the viewer's perspective is rubble for tunnel building.

Questions:
Too little or too much live rock?
Too little or too much rubble?
Unrelated: is a 450 gph for the 29g tank to little flow?

Thanks again all

 

[marqese]

I would add more but thats just me.

 

[Tarrant]

Well I was going by why Roy said in his post: "The virtues of small Odontodactylus species"
He recommended one 3-4" piece of LR to optimize bottom space to give more zip-around room.

 

[Islandoftiki]

I'm pretty sure you have enough rock. I always end up with too much rock in most of my tanks.

I would probably add about three more pieces around the same size as your current pieces are now and stack them up on top of the main pile for some height. I like the overall placement that you have though.