Next??

its a wide flow. depends on the corals and how much flow you want i guess.

did you have vortech's before hans ?? if so which ones and what size ??
 
well i was expecting hans and jay to respond. hopefully hans has experience with these pumps and it might work. but i know i had this exact tank and an mp40 and i didnt feel it was enough for softies or whatever. so i stand my ground. also im talking from experience with the exact pump formentioned. only i fear jay would say its enough with just one mp40.

again 2 would be perfect. but start off with one 40 and you will see go from therer.
 
well i was expecting hans and jay to respond. hopefully hans has experience with these pumps and it might work. but i know i had this exact tank and an mp40 and i didnt feel it was enough for softies or whatever. so i stand my ground. also im talking from experience with the exact pump formentioned. only i fear jay would say its enough with just one mp40.

again 2 would be perfect. but start off with one 40 and you will see go from therer.
Oops! Sorry I read this and was going to reply but lost it somehow! :( Yes one MP40 in my 90 but I also had a closed loop powered by a Pan World 50PX-X (1110 gph). So I would recommend two MP40's for the 90 also.

Jay
 
Oops! Sorry I read this and was going to reply but lost it somehow! :( Yes one MP40 in my 90 but I also had a closed loop powered by a Pan World 50PX-X (1110 gph). So I would recommend two MP40's for the 90 also.

Jay

oh thank god haha. well there you go the 2 people with 90's and vortechs say 2 mp40's would be best. or you can go with the advice of the people who havent had them. haha.
 
P-You smart bleep! I would say something really smart but have to calm down a bit because of the RC police!

No, don't have any of the Vortechs because in my system, the price of a single mp10 outweighed the benefits in my last system. I couldn't see spending the amount of chedda on a WAVEMAKER (ha ha) versus the benefits it was going to provide. In my next system, you bet your sweet behind I will.

but here is the math and the golden rule to water turn over in a system. Everything that i have read and research in this hobby is that the rule in a closed loop system (your display tank) is that the water must be turned over 10x in one hour, minimum. There is also a thing called to much flow in which corals do not get the nutrients they need to grow and thrive because they can't absorb them: to much flow. Very similar to light--there is a balance between to much and to little. So here is the lesson for tonight.

Since we are using Sal's system we will use this as our standard. 10 x 90 gallons (size of Sal's system)=900 gallons per hour that the water must be turned over inside the system in order for it to thrive. Ok lets round that number up to 1000 GPH. A single Vortech MP10 from Ectoech from the spec sheets state that one single pump can turn over 200-1575 GPH. So lets say we drive that up to its full potential, 1575 GPH. One single MP10 theoretically can turn over the water in Sal's display tank. He needs at least minimum a pump that can do 1000 GPH. So if he were to get at least one MP10, that would be more then sufficient: 1575 - 1000=575. But if he gets 2 MP10, that would equate to 1575 x 2=3150 GPH the 2 pumps are turning the water over: 3150-1000=2150 GPH extra the pumps are pushing. Not bad and more then enough.

2 MP40's as stated provides flow of 1000-3200 GPH. Lets say he does gets 2 and throttles them down to 50% capacity. That would equate to 2250 (1000-3200=2200/2=1100+1000=2250) GPH x 2=4500 GPH. But why would you purchase 2 MP40's and use them at half of their capabilities while spending more money? When you can buy 2 MP10's for the price of one MP40 and use them to their full capabilities. The math does not refute that 2 MP10's are more then capable of keeping this system thriving. Again, i am only taking the specs of the pumps from the mfg and the gallon/hour turn over rate in this hobby, 10x.

So in conclusion, these are hands down the best pumps in the market. Are they being used the right way? Hey, to each their own. However, to say that Sal needs 2 MP40's in a 90 gallon system is to much flow. And using them at 1/2 of their capabilities while spending more does not justify it: cost out weighing the benefits gentle flow or not as advertised. Furthermore, the datum provided justifies that 2 MP10's are more then adequate to maintain a healthy reef in a closed loop system. Here, the cost and benefit of having MP10's are justifiable.

Thank you. This concludes the lesson for today.

I should be a teacher or professor
 
P-You smart bleep! I would say something really smart but have to calm down a bit because of the RC police!

No, don't have any of the Vortechs because in my system, the price of a single mp10 outweighed the benefits in my last system. I couldn't see spending the amount of chedda on a WAVEMAKER (ha ha) versus the benefits it was going to provide. In my next system, you bet your sweet behind I will.

but here is the math and the golden rule to water turn over in a system. Everything that i have read and research in this hobby is that the rule in a closed loop system (your display tank) is that the water must be turned over 10x in one hour, minimum. There is also a thing called to much flow in which corals do not get the nutrients they need to grow and thrive because they can't absorb them: to much flow. Very similar to light--there is a balance between to much and to little. So here is the lesson for tonight.

Since we are using Sal's system we will use this as our standard. 10 x 90 gallons (size of Sal's system)=900 gallons per hour that the water must be turned over inside the system in order for it to thrive. Ok lets round that number up to 1000 GPH. A single Vortech MP10 from Ectoech from the spec sheets state that one single pump can turn over 200-1575 GPH. So lets say we drive that up to its full potential, 1575 GPH. One single MP10 theoretically can turn over the water in Sal's display tank. He needs at least minimum a pump that can do 1000 GPH. So if he were to get at least one MP10, that would be more then sufficient: 1575 - 1000=575. But if he gets 2 MP10, that would equate to 1575 x 2=3150 GPH the 2 pumps are turning the water over: 3150-1000=2150 GPH extra the pumps are pushing. Not bad and more then enough.

2 MP40's as stated provides flow of 1000-3200 GPH. Lets say he does gets 2 and throttles them down to 50% capacity. That would equate to 2250 (1000-3200=2200/2=1100+1000=2250) GPH x 2=4500 GPH. But why would you purchase 2 MP40's and use them at half of their capabilities while spending more money? When you can buy 2 MP10's for the price of one MP40 and use them to their full capabilities. The math does not refute that 2 MP10's are more then capable of keeping this system thriving. Again, i am only taking the specs of the pumps from the mfg and the gallon/hour turn over rate in this hobby, 10x.

So in conclusion, these are hands down the best pumps in the market. Are they being used the right way? Hey, to each their own. However, to say that Sal needs 2 MP40's in a 90 gallon system is to much flow. And using them at 1/2 of their capabilities while spending more does not justify it: cost out weighing the benefits gentle flow or not as advertised. Furthermore, the datum provided justifies that 2 MP10's are more then adequate to maintain a healthy reef in a closed loop system. Here, the cost and benefit of having MP10's are justifiable.

Thank you. This concludes the lesson for today.

I should be a teacher or professor

well i almost fell asleep half way thru that, ill finsih reading it another day. alls i knows is that 2 mp10s aint enough. haha. sorry but trust me and jay. same tank, same pump wasnt enough. :beer:
 
P-You smart bleep! I would say something really smart but have to calm down a bit because of the RC police!

No, don't have any of the Vortechs because in my system, the price of a single mp10 outweighed the benefits in my last system. I couldn't see spending the amount of chedda on a WAVEMAKER (ha ha) versus the benefits it was going to provide. In my next system, you bet your sweet behind I will.

but here is the math and the golden rule to water turn over in a system. Everything that i have read and research in this hobby is that the rule in a closed loop system (your display tank) is that the water must be turned over 10x in one hour, minimum. There is also a thing called to much flow in which corals do not get the nutrients they need to grow and thrive because they can't absorb them: to much flow. Very similar to light--there is a balance between to much and to little. So here is the lesson for tonight.

Since we are using Sal's system we will use this as our standard. 10 x 90 gallons (size of Sal's system)=900 gallons per hour that the water must be turned over inside the system in order for it to thrive. Ok lets round that number up to 1000 GPH. A single Vortech MP10 from Ectoech from the spec sheets state that one single pump can turn over 200-1575 GPH. So lets say we drive that up to its full potential, 1575 GPH. One single MP10 theoretically can turn over the water in Sal's display tank. He needs at least minimum a pump that can do 1000 GPH. So if he were to get at least one MP10, that would be more then sufficient: 1575 - 1000=575. But if he gets 2 MP10, that would equate to 1575 x 2=3150 GPH the 2 pumps are turning the water over: 3150-1000=2150 GPH extra the pumps are pushing. Not bad and more then enough.

2 MP40's as stated provides flow of 1000-3200 GPH. Lets say he does gets 2 and throttles them down to 50% capacity. That would equate to 2250 (1000-3200=2200/2=1100+1000=2250) GPH x 2=4500 GPH. But why would you purchase 2 MP40's and use them at half of their capabilities while spending more money? When you can buy 2 MP10's for the price of one MP40 and use them to their full capabilities. The math does not refute that 2 MP10's are more then capable of keeping this system thriving. Again, i am only taking the specs of the pumps from the mfg and the gallon/hour turn over rate in this hobby, 10x.

So in conclusion, these are hands down the best pumps in the market. Are they being used the right way? Hey, to each their own. However, to say that Sal needs 2 MP40's in a 90 gallon system is to much flow. And using them at 1/2 of their capabilities while spending more does not justify it: cost out weighing the benefits gentle flow or not as advertised. Furthermore, the datum provided justifies that 2 MP10's are more then adequate to maintain a healthy reef in a closed loop system. Here, the cost and benefit of having MP10's are justifiable.

Thank you. This concludes the lesson for today.

I should be a teacher or professor
I would just add that turnover rate is just one rule of thumb and not the only equation. You say 10x some would say that is fine for softies but some might say 20 "“ 50x is better for SPS. IMO proper flow is more important and that includes laminar flow, a surge and some turbulence to be ideal. You have to take into consideration how much rock is in the space and inhabitants that can lead to inadequate water movement. What happens with the Vortech's IMO is that they lose velocity only a few inches away from the pump head. Rock gets in the way and you will quickly realize that going with the smallest pump is probably not ideal on that size of tank. The video above supports this. Also, why would you run the Vortech at half speed? So you can have ramp up capacity (surge, turbulence). I would rather have excess capacity then run a smaller pump at full blast to achieve the flow (not just turnover rate).

Here is a pic of the 90 setup with the Vortech 40 on the left side. If I turned the closed loop pump off the xenia on the right side would only move as if in a soft breeze. Trust me when I say I wanted it to move because I wanted to turn the closed loop off!

03122010c.jpg


Thank you. This concludes lesson #2 for today! ;)

Jay
 
well when are you thinking to make the purchase by? id say buy one mp40 and you will see. heck borrow mine for a couple of days so you can mess with it. only a couple of days though. haha.
 
More like a prosecutor. Lol. Jk. Hans :D



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DUDE!!! That is the funniest thing I have heard in months!:D

Pedro/Jay--My rebuttal since we are doing a scientific approach on this is. How do both of you know that an MP10 is not adequate if both have never used the latest model to refute the claim that "it aint enough flow" or "because we know"? Anyone can show a video to support anything but may still be contradictory. Especially in 90 gallon system? Was it tested to scientifically state, "that yes, an MP10 is not enough flow to determine feasibly a healthy reef tank with a 90 gallon system because I performed a trial and error on it"? I haven't seen any of the information to refute it.

Jay, I am glad you said that the golden rule us open to interpretation. Lets ramp up the turn over rate, GPH to satisfy the need to ALL inhabitants plus equating for turbulence. We'll meet in the middle and ramp up the flow to 30x the turn over rate would equal to 2700 GPH in a 90 gallon system. Thats quite a bit if you ask me. Per the datum, the MP10's are still able to accommodate the flow to provide a healthy system in a reef tank.

So when individuals state that "Also, why would you run the Vortech at half speed? So you can have ramp up capacity (surge, turbulence)." Thats the equivalent of buying a Bugatti Veyron, Aston Martin One-77, or Ford Cobra, Shelby Edition (just for you Jay!) and state "well I bought it to only go 25 MPH on it because then I can open it up later. Well also to save gas" What? You buy it to go fast and show it of! If you own one of these bad boys, who cares about the gas prices because you want to go fast, full throttle. That's like a jockey telling his horse to slow down so that other horses can catch up to them. No, you go fast. That's what these pumps are the equivalent of, bad *** cars or very fast horses--they were made to go, full throttle!

So, what have learned, nothing! Just joking. This hobby is no different because most of the time we purchase items that are over kill/excess of what we should have gotten in the first place. All I am doing is providing data to Sal to make a logical, informed decision as to what he should purchase. To give him the wrong information on a speculative manner would be very unethical in all of our behalves. Thank you.

Lesson number 3 adjourned.
 
i think hans is selling mp10s out of his garage or something. haha. you should work for the mp10 vortech division.

look im sure 2 might be enough, im just saying one mp40 wasnt enough full strength on random modes, so thats alot to go by, enough to where every couple of weeks i would switch it to the other side of the tank to flush out whatever.
 
Awesome video but i am still debating for myself!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3RYioaSFvI&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Steffen Sparks
I saw that one last night and forgot to post it. That is ONE MP10 on a 3 foot long system!!

i think hans is selling mp10s out of his garage or something. haha. you should work for the mp10 vortech division.

look im sure 2 might be enough, im just saying one mp40 wasnt enough full strength on random modes, so thats alot to go by, enough to where every couple of weeks i would switch it to the other side of the tank to flush out whatever.
Ha ha ha! P, you know i love you bro! and no, not selling anything out of my garage! Would LOVE to work for Ecotech!

Ecotech you listening out there?!!!! I can send my resume, right now. Its thorough and have managed over $500 million in projects.
 
I saw that one last night and forgot to post it. That is ONE MP10 on a 3 foot long system!!


Ha ha ha! P, you know i love you bro! and no, not selling anything out of my garage! Would LOVE to work for Ecotech!

Ecotech you listening out there?!!!! I can send my resume, right now. Its thorough and have managed over $500 million in projects.
If they are listening they are sad as you are touting their least expensive product!! No margin in that!!!!! :)

Pedro/Jay--My rebuttal since we are doing a scientific approach on this is. How do both of you know that an MP10 is not adequate if both have never used the latest model to refute the claim that "it aint enough flow" or "because we know"? Anyone can show a video to support anything but may still be contradictory. Especially in 90 gallon system? Was it tested to scientifically state, "that yes, an MP10 is not enough flow to determine feasibly a healthy reef tank with a 90 gallon system because I performed a trial and error on it"? I haven't seen any of the information to refute it.
Firsthand experience!! :) In my tank the performance of one MP40 was ok – two would have been better. Yours?
smiley-face-poke.gif


Jay, I am glad you said that the golden rule us open to interpretation. Lets ramp up the turn over rate, GPH to satisfy the need to ALL inhabitants plus equating for turbulence. We'll meet in the middle and ramp up the flow to 30x the turn over rate would equal to 2700 GPH in a 90 gallon system. Thats quite a bit if you ask me. Per the datum, the MP10's are still able to accommodate the flow to provide a healthy system in a reef tank.
You missed the point. The object is not just GPH – it is proper flow. Your working with half of the formula!!
So when individuals state that "Also, why would you run the Vortech at half speed? So you can have ramp up capacity (surge, turbulence)." Thats the equivalent of buying a Bugatti Veyron, Aston Martin One-77, or Ford Cobra, Shelby Edition (just for you Jay!) and state "well I bought it to only go 25 MPH on it because then I can open it up later. Well also to save gas" What? You buy it to go fast and show it of! If you own one of these bad boys, who cares about the gas prices because you want to go fast, full throttle. That's like a jockey telling his horse to slow down so that other horses can catch up to them. No, you go fast. That's what these pumps are the equivalent of, bad *** cars or very fast horses--they were made to go, full throttle!
Why would you ride in a Pinto when you have Cobra in the garage? If you read some of the recommendation from Ecotech’ on their forum, well, let’s let them do the recommendations:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2004833
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2004404
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2003023
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1989231
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1997790

….and the list could go on.

So, what have learned, nothing! Just joking. This hobby is no different because most of the time we purchase items that are over kill/excess of what we should have gotten in the first place. All I am doing is providing data to Sal to make a logical, informed decision as to what he should purchase. To give him the wrong information on a speculative manner would be very unethical in all of our behalves. Thank you.

Lesson number 3 adjourned.
Schools out professor!! :) :lol:

Jay
 
Really glad jays on my side. Haha. And I've been in bad a#* cars. Just cuz the car revs up to 9000 rpm doesn't mean u use it at every stop sign .
 
I'm just having fun
spank.gif
Hans!! I could be totally wrong!!!! :)

Jay

JAY, I LOVE IT!! Finally someone that can rebuttal on an informed, scholarly fashion. Your to cool for school Jay. But some of the your comments, OUCH!!! A little personal there my good friend.

Well since I am never wrong, here it is from the horses mouth. When in doubt, ask the pro's and not hobbyist since their OPINION will be greatly exaggerated!! :lolspin: Again, I am NEVER WRONG!!! LOL. :D

"Hans,
Thank you for contacting EcoTech Marine.

For a 90 gallon reef aquarium. I would start off with a MP40wES. While a powerful little pump, the MP10wES may not be enough to provide you with enough flow for a system of that size.

There is a hobbyist here locally who has a 90 gallon system, a mixed reef with a nice fast growing sps all across the top of the system. He started off with a MP40wES about a year ago, and has since added a MP10wES to supplement the MP40wES and provide some additional flow now that his tank has really taken off.

I have a 65 gallon reef tank myself, and I use 2x MP10wES on that size system, but anything larger than that, I would recommend the MP40wES, and then once your tank really takes off, you can think about adding a secondary pump at that time.

Do I think that 2 MP10wES will do a great job on a 90g, sure, they will do a acceptable job, but with a tank of that size, you’re going to want a pump that is built to handle a tank of that size, and the MP40wES is that pump for that job.

Hope this helps. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please let me know.

Thank you
Eric

Eric Brennan
EcoTech Marine
"
 
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