nitrate disaster!

Something isn't right. Each of those 50% water changes will cut the nitrate levels in half; the bioload is high, but not high enough to raise the nitrates to 50 in spite of the water changes. Perhaps she's exaggerating the water changes?
 
well i told her to basically stop doing twice a week water changes. go back to weekly 25% water changes. and maybe things will calm down. she is also gonna put a new skimmer on. if that still doesnt work she probley needs to get rid of some fish. she doesnt have much but that could very well be whats going on.
 
How long has the system been running? There is something with decaying matter trapped somewhere or there is not enough gas exchange to convert the nitrates to nitrogen gas. Try adding a power head one for more circulation but direct it toward the surface for more agititation and to promote evaporation and gas exchange. It may take a few days to notice anything.

Secondly, are bio balls being used or if the setup has been there for a long time is there a LR rubble pile in the sump that needs to be vaccumed out?

Just a couple of other thoughts you can try.

Dave

P.S.>What macro is in the fuge and how's it doing?
 
First of all, I disagree with a few of the suggestions. I don't think a water change needs to be a minimum 30% total volume. Why? As long as temperature, salinity and PH are consistent, it shouldn't matter. You could technically change out 100% of the water if you wanted.

As well, if she's serious about cutting down on nitrates, I would move toward a barebottom tank as opposed to increasing the depth of her sandbed.

I'm wondering if something might have died and is rotting somewhere. That would definitely do it. But as someone already mentioned, a 50% water change should cut the nitrates in half. If they're at 40-50ppm again right away, I would also doubt the accuracy of the test kits.

Get rid of the canister filter, in my opinion. Or if she doesn't want to, at least clean it much more regularly.
 
Actually a 50% WC wouldn't necessarily cut the nitrates in half. Randy Holmes-Farley had an article that showed water changes were virtually ineffective for treating high nitrates, good for prevention, not effective for treatment though. I can't remember where the article is though.

Dave
 
Choosing a SSB instead of a DSB (for what is essentially a skimmerless system), using a canister filter, and not a good enough protein skimmer coupled with a pretty large bioload has caused this problem.

I would attack at least three of these areas. Personally I would remove the canister, get a good skimmer and remove some fish for a good period until it is under control. This will cut the import, increase the export, and eliminate the over-efficient nitrification of the canister, allowing the skimmer and cleanup crew (I focus on pods) to reduce some nitrification of detrius.

Continue with healthy 30% weekly water changes. If water is matched to her tank there is NO issue with larger water changes, I do 30% all the time in an SPS dominant tank..
 
Last edited:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11004041#post11004041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djc1026
Actually a 50% WC wouldn't necessarily cut the nitrates in half. Randy Holmes-Farley had an article that showed water changes were virtually ineffective for treating high nitrates, good for prevention, not effective for treatment though. I can't remember where the article is though.

Dave
Click to expand...

I don't think we read the same article. Randy's article showed how monthly 30% water changes were an effective way to control nitrate, but not eliminate it. She is doing 60% weekly, not monthly, that is more then adaquete.

Ok there is coral. You need a minimum 4 inch SB. And turn the filter off.
Sorry so much here.
.5 inch sand bed wrong.
only 1 powerhead wrong
to small skimmer wrong
dragon with no fuge wrong

Start with the SB and go from there. Also refugium with cheato would really help.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

You do not need a 4" sand bed to keep corals. I've never kept one that depth and many go barebottom.

Many of us use filters, and are succsessful.

Many keep low flow tanks and do not have problems. I only have one powerhead, my nitrates are 0 and I way overfeed.

I don't even have a skimmer on my reef system, how can one be to small. It's even a similiar size to the one in question and my waterchange schedule is less then half of what she id doing.

There is a refugium.

If temp and pH are mathed unless the corals are out of water during the change there will be no stress on them.

I don't see how it is possible to do a 30% change and have the nitrates not drop. Just doesn't add up math wise. IMO and my best guess are the nitrates are being continually added by the amount of fod and waste produced with that bioload.

If the refugium is not producing a large amount of harvestable macro, then something is off.

In the realm of things unless your dealing with SPS 50ppm of nitrates in not really the end of the world.

I would clean the cannister more often, and try feeding less. During the WC's vacuum the rocks and substrate as much as possible to remove detritus. Try increasing flow through the rock work to eliminate build up.

I would look into dosing foods for the the anaerobic bacteria as well in the form of ProBio of vodka, to help with the natural removal of the nitrates.

JMO
 
the tank has been up for a year now. no bio balls. she just moved recently so when we moved the tank, we cleaned it very good. and still no change. and if something died which nothing did, the amonia work have spiked. everything else is fine except the nitrates
 
Pledosophy, the article does say it can control it over the course of doing them regularly over a year and that monthly large changes of 15-30% show to be better than frequent smaller WC. There is nothing in the article that says one single, or a few large WC will effectively reduce high nitrates. Sorry if I was misleading, I just meant don't bump up your WC a couple of times and expect to dramatically reduce nitrates for the long haul. I speculate that if you change 60% or more you will have an impact on a reading for a day or two or three, but whatever is causing the high numbers will repopulate the new water very quickly.

v/r,

Dave
 
she going back to weekly 25% WC, which is what i recommend. and doing water changes should and usually do decrease the nitrates. but for some reason not in her tank. she is getting a new skimmer, and i have a powerhead she can borrow. and i told her to get rid of some fish. i think she might have a bit to much.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11005330#post11005330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by djc1026
There is nothing in the article that says one single, or a few large WC will effectively reduce high nitrates.

v/r,

Dave
Click to expand...

Ummmm... that is exactly what it says about HIGH nitrates.. I think you may need to read the article again and look more at the time intervals...

It shows exactly what you would suspect, it is simple math:

Figure3sm.GIF


After one 30% change the nitrates are dropped from above 100ppm to just about 70ppm, and over the course of the next month it goes up to about 75, only to be then reduced to just over 50 ppm..

I do not see how you can say that reducing from over 100ppm to around 50ppm in just two months with only two waterchanges and cutting ytour nitrates in half is "having an impact for only a day or two.."

In just 4 months with only 4 water changes there is a %70 reduction to 30 ppm... That is a huge impact...

The only thing the article shows is you can not reduce nitrate to ZERO with waterchanges and that with lower ppm's of nitrate you get diminishing returns for WC's in terms of reducing levels.

Anyways, I am starting to think there is a bad test here after reading through the whole thread.

I just do not see any way her input of nitrates just happens to match 50% weekly waterchanges. No way.
 
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Thanks jcpatella for posting the link. If we need to start another thread so as not to hijack the OP's, then let's do that. I offered my opinion as others have, my apologies if it goes against the grain. PM's sent for further discussion.

Dave
 
In this case she is not doing 30% once a month, she has been doing 30% twice a week. Effectively around 240% a month, minus the math for recurred change which off the top of my head without coffee would be around 216% or so. She is doing 6 months of waterchanges in a month if you go by Holmes Farley's graphs.

Yes the article did show that one large waterchange was better then several small ones, but only very slightly better. Like 3.5% or something (sorry no coffee yet). It was minimal enough that the author still uses very small cahnges in his system. Food for thought.

In the original post it stuck out to me that you said you test her RO water and it reads 0 nirates. Is this after you have added the salt? Also have you tested the TDS on the RO fresh water?

I would also add something like Seachem's Denitrate to the cannister.

I never saw what type of macro is in the refugium or how much of it.

Also what is the flow in the refugium like?

Is she keeping SPS?

We'll get to the bottom of it.
 
I concede, maybe I just simply should have said WC alone won't fix a nitrate problem, there is another cause. Treating it with WC doesn't make it go away. Sorry for the confusion :)

Even with coffee, I can't do percentages off the top of my head :)

Dave
 
Want to clean up your water in less than a month?

Two things.

1. Remote Deep Sand Bed
2. Ozone

Worked wonders for me. The only thing is that it may make your water too clean. The single change that I have made to my tank that has made the biggest improvement.

Never again without Ozone.
 
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