Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

ser_renely

Active member
I did a 20g change on a 60g water column. nitrates went from the high 20's to 15-ish. Can I do another 20g tomorrow or will I mess up the bacterias? My corals are really struggling, at the moment, I think I may have shocked them before the change. What would my best approach be in reducing the nitrates?

How should I clean my sponges, filter media(carbon with bag) and sponges?

Thanks,
Ser
 
15 to 20 really isn't all that bad, depending on the corals you are keeping. I think you could do another 20 tomorrow. The best approach is thru identifying what is causing the problem and then make adjustments to try and prevent the problem from reoccurring. Regular Water changes along with the proper amount of liverock and growing macro-algae go along way towards dealing with nitrates.
It sounds like you might be running a canister filter. If you are you need to break that thing down and clean it at least once per week until you get you nitrates under control.
The way to clean that stuff is with a water hose. Let it drip dry before reassembling the filters and putting them back into the tank. Many people choose to remove sponge filters and bioballs from their tanks all together to help prevent nitrate build up.
They do make a nitrate removal media but I'm sure it would be spent just about as fast as you put it in there.
 
Ser, I've done 50% changes on my 34 with no ill effects. My understanding of nitrate is that is primarily in the water column and not in the rock/sand. This is why water changes are so effective at removing it. Your denitrifying bacteria are mostly present in the rock and sand. They are also present in the water column to a minor extent so water changes won't effect your bacteria very much.

A large water change with clean water that has different parameters (alk,ph,temp,salinity) than your existing tankwater can cause problems though.
 
I have an A-miracle wet dry. I run a phos pad, filter pad and then some carbon in it; as well as my skimmer. I also have a couple sponges for the overflow, and in the sump to limit bubbles.


thanks :)
 
Re: Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13029856#post13029856 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ser_renely
I did a 20g change on a 60g water column. nitrates went from the high 20's to 15-ish. Can I do another 20g tomorrow or will I mess up the bacterias? My corals are really struggling, at the moment, I think I may have shocked them before the change. What would my best approach be in reducing the nitrates?

How should I clean my sponges, filter media(carbon with bag) and sponges?

Thanks,
Ser

In this article Randy states that less frequent 30 percent water changes are more effective at reducing nitrates

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
 
Re: Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13029856#post13029856 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ser_renely

How should I clean my sponges, filter media(carbon with bag) and sponges?

Thanks,
Ser

Remove all sponges--you don't need them

Purchase a phosban reactor and run your carbon in that. It is a much more effecient way because unlike with the bag, the water is forced through the entire media rather then just using the outside inch or so.
Duel phosban reactors --one for carbon and one for phosban will help indirectly reducing some nitrates

By far the most effective method of reducing nitrates is a refugium with macro algae like chaeto
 
Re: Re: Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

Re: Re: Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13031433#post13031433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
In this article Randy states that less frequent 30 percent water changes are more effective at reducing nitrates

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Wait...what? I've read through that article ( I'm assuming it's the same one, I just skimmed through it), and I'm pretty sure Randy advocates more frequent, smaller water changes.

Or are you just refering to the OP's 50% every day changes? :confused:

I would save the 50% changes for when something is seriously wrong, and otherwise stick with frequent smaller changes. NO3 at 20 isn't something that would require a 50% change IMHO.
 
Re: Re: Re: Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

Re: Re: Re: Nitrates - water changes and maintenance

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13031910#post13031910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phenom5
Wait...what? I've read through that article ( I'm assuming it's the same one, I just skimmed through it), and I'm pretty sure Randy advocates more frequent, smaller water changes.

Or are you just refering to the OP's 50% every day changes? :confused:

I would save the 50% changes for when something is seriously wrong, and otherwise stick with frequent smaller changes. NO3 at 20 isn't something that would require a 50% change IMHO.

in all honesty he does advocate less frequent water changes for nitrate reduction and has documented in graphs
I came by this article as recommended by Randy himself and at the time it was on a thread where he stated the above--

otherwise I wouldn't differ with you Phenom5;)
 
he replaces 1% of his water daily, however has said that 30% water changes less often are probably better than 10% weekly

oh-and i ran a poll and was actually suprised that the best aquarists with the best tanks actually did less water changes than the rest of us normal folk:D i ask a question about water change shedules and not all but most very experienced reefers found less changes more benificial, i change 40 ltrs a week and have a 350 ltr tank, so about 12% ish, however some of the guys did only 5% a fortnight or monthly, some only did a 30% 2-3 times a year, just thought id mention this:)
 
I do about 30 g in my 150 about monthly - yes, i have nitrates, but they stay around 10-15. stock is a 4' moray and a clean up crew, LR in tank & sump
 
Honestly doing water changes to lower nitrates is an exercise in futility. IME they just bounce right back in a few days. Get to the root of the problem and you'll be far more successful.
A good approach to reducing nitrates is a GOOD skimmer, a properly setup up fuge and adequate flow to keep the detritus suspended in the water column so your skimmer can get that crap outta your tank. IMO flow is severely underrated in the hobby. Anyone who's actually been out on a reef scuba/snorkeling cant attest to the amount of flow/current that the ocean has.
 
discontinue the use of bio-balls, bio-wheels, sponges and anything else that allows waste to sit in the water.

The proetin skimmer should be getting rid of a lot of it if it is working well.

Bottom like, I agree get the crap outta the tank as mentioned above!!
 
i will mention that nitrates of 15 is not that high, i doubt very much this is the reason for your corals struggling as you worded it, my suggestion would be you have a phosphate problem, and the kit you have cant register a reading at low levels, try looking at this angle for your coral problem, im pretty sure 15 nitrate is not the problem here
 
You could try adding a bag of Seachem, PhosGuard. It is not too expensive and I have used it for years! It can not hurt, that's for sure.
 
much of this post I did on fighting algae by reducing phosphates and nitrates is appropriate here so I will cut and paste it
It adds to the excellent advice by the other posters on here :)

Capn's collection of shock and awe against algae
Most of the time algae is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
Algae needs three things for the process of photosythesis to occur--carbon dioxide, light and food. If we could completely remove one of these elements it would not be able to survive.
Unfortunately in our reef tanks it is difficult to remove light and carbon dioxide completely but we can sereverly limit its food, mainly nitrates and phosphates.

If you have an algae problem then it should be approached in a way that limits the nitrates and phosphates in your water column

This is a combination of steps and practises rather then one magic bullet that will kill off all the algae in your tank.

Here is a list of practises that have been mentioned through a great number of posts that I have been proactive in and hopefully if they are together they might help

1. Feeding techniques----always feed less at one time but feed more often if the species of fish requires it. My fish always look hungry and so does my dog--they learn how to scam us humans very quickly.
Rinse off frozen prepared foods like brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. Quite often they contain phosphates and nitrates from die off in their holding tanks.

2. Flow rates and directions of flow can make a big difference
A rate that is quoted here quite often is that you should have between 20-40 times your tank volume in gph if your tank is mostly lps and even greater if mainly sps corals. There are still some expections with lps corals--you need to be on top of the husbandry requirements for each coral you have and place them accordingly.

Organic laden water slowly rises from the bottom of the tank to the top where it is skimmed off by various methods such as an overflow. Skimmed water is usually sent back to lower levels of the tank from the skimmer or sump via various ways such as loc lines.

In practical words this means that in the tank your flow should be directed to always enhance the above natural flow in the tank.
It should for a circle or semi circle and be pushed down, across the substrate up to the surface--across the surface--churning it up and towards the overflow

3.flow rates in the sump
The perfered answer for this question is between 5-10 times the total volume of your water column.
More importantly it should match the flow rate of your skimmer.
Otherwise unskimmed organic laden water is returned to the lower levels of the tank where it has to slowly make its way to the top like I desribed in the above flow senerio. This gives algae a second chance to have another lunch
This is also where flow rates and directions in the tank also help in this particular situation by getting the water back up to the top and out the overflow faster again.

Flow rates both in the sump and the tank are very important in the filtering process

4.Method of cleaning or tank maintenance
water changes---Randy has written in one of his articles that the ideal water change to remove nitrates is 30 per cent once of month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
other reefers have stated that immediate or every two week 20 percent water changes will reduce phosphates and ammonia quickly.

cleaning the rockwork and substrate--once a week take a turkey baster and lightly baste the rock and substrate with it. this will get dissolved organics, phosphates and nitrates back into the water column where they can be filtered off instead of collecting and adding to the algae smorgasboard. Once again flow is very important in this also.

change your protein skimmer cup every other day

if running a filter sock change it everyother day---soak it in bleach and run it through a wash cycle with no soap. Let them dry in the air and the clorine will evaporate

5. tweaking equipment. Try not to run bioballs in filters. Replace them and all filter media with nothing!
The best use of a canister filter is to run straight carbon in it.

take skimmer pumps apart once a month and clean out the air venturis--make sure you have lots of air being combined to give a good foam column. This helps reduce organics but it also helps displace carbon dioxide with oxygen and keep your pH stable.

Once you have your levels of phosphates and nitrates in check then you may want to consider


1. running carbon and phospban in phosban reactors. the advantage to these is the water is forced through the entire media and can't take the easy way around the outside as when the media is put in a bag. Carbon can adsorb some phosphates and nitrates and the carbon is used by active bacteria in the tank



2. setting up a refugium with chaeto algae. You will need a good size refugium 20-30 gals and about 2-3 months of intensive cheato grow for it to make a noticeble difference on phosphates and nitrates. and the other advantage of a refugium is you get a larger and more variety of copopods, other inverts and good bacteria for the water column



3. finding critters that eat algae. I leave this till the last because it is a problematic solution to algae. the critters don't always do what they are suppose to do. Putting some inverts in to eat a particular algae is great at the start but what do they feed on after they have eaten their specific food source.

4. another method that is cropping up alot more now is the use of magnesium. Magnesium should be at 1300ppm in a reef tank to support a level over 400ppm of calcium. some reefers have reported great success with cranking the level of magnesium to 1600 pppm for two weeks. the aglae dies off and none have reported any death to corals, inverts or fish.
 
good stuff, I have read that a couple times....obviously I need to continue to read it ;)


I have a reactor on the way.

I think I asked this before, can I use carbon and phos media in one reactor at the same time?
 
You should use them in seperate reactors due to the fact that the carbon will need to be changed more often the the phos media.
 
Back
Top