nitrite control

[jobadia]

Hi there,

I'm a newbie!

What do you guys use when the nitrite spikes? (besides a big water change which I just did). The nitrate is within acceptable range.

I have a 55gal with a Magnum 350 plus Bio-wheel and a powerhead. Everything's been nice and stable since I started up the tank about 2 months ago.

Went throught the diatom stage for a couple of weeks (that was fun... NOT!) and just recently lost a beauty coral angel to ich. I don't have an extra 'hospital' tank (am definitely getting one in the next 2 weeks) so I was trying to treat the whole tank with some product recommended by the pet store that sold me the ich beauty, but it really wasn't working. After reading all the marine forums, I realize that I HAVE to have that hospital tank (I could have saved my beauty)... and really need to quarenteen all new arrivals.

Jake

 

[Frodo the Goby]

You could use cleaner shrimp to help you control Ich. Skunks or Blood Shrimp work well.
You may want to invest in a protein skimmer as well to help your water quality.

 

[DaddyJax]

It sounds like you are still going through a cycle to me. I have never had nitrites since my first cycle. I would not put anything in your tank to remove it. Instead I would let it run its course. The reason is so that your tank produces the needed bacteria and microorganisms for your biological filtration. The diatoms are usually the first sign of a cycle. If you put something in your tank to remove it you can damage your tanks Biofiltration as well!!

Was your Live Rock cured or uncured? You may have had something die in your tank and it is going through the cycle: Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate.


Btw I would add a good skimmer and dump the biowheel like stated above!

 

[amheck]

I would also think you're not done with the cycle. As far as I know, you shouldn't have nitrates after the initial setup cycle. lso, 2 months is not very long, in the scheme of this hobby, so I'm guessing the tank isn't as stable as you might think.

 

[jobadia]

Oh really?

So you guys think I may be going through a late start-up cycle? So, besides water changes, anything else I can do right now?

I just found a dead Mexican Turbo snail, a yellow damselfish, and a saddleback clown. Am I going to loose some more fish while this is cycling, or what?

I am definitely going to get a protein skimmer and the hospital tank, but not before 2 weeks (when I get paid again!). Man, I hope that they don't ALL die before then!!

Someone suggested that I get rid of the bio-wheel and just get the skimmer. Why is that? Don't I need the bacteria even if I get the skimmer? I thought that was important...

Jake

 

[amheck]

The live rock and sand will have all of the bacteria that you need. THe bio-wheel will just hold junk. And yes, water changes are probably a good thing now.

 

[Acolin]

getting started fast

getting started fast

On a new tank, you do not want to do water changes to lower the nitrite spike. You want to let the initial nitrogen cycle runs its course. The larger the initial bioload, the more serve the nitrogen cycle will be…and the greater the bioload holding capacity of the biological filter will be.

A two-month-old tank is right in the middle of the nitrogen cycle. Nitrites should be spiking if there is any bioload in the tank at all.

In general, DO NOT treat a new or old hard and soft coral reef display with medicines. Remove the creature and treat it in a hospital tank separately. Ten-gallon tanks and filters (of any kind) are less than $20. If you can’t afford that, you can not afford even one water change!

Shrimps are great cleaners, cool looking and fun to watch.

Protein skimmers are not the same thing as bio-wheels. Bio-wheels are superb wet/dry biological filters, like live rock. If you have a mountain of live rock, you do not need a bio-wheel, but it does not hurt to have one. Make sure the magnum fiber pads are clean though. Do you have the vacuum attachment? That sucker (pun intended) is cool for cleaning up the bottom.

Skimmers remove dissolved organics (DO) before live rock and bio-wheels can break DO down into the nitrogen cycle. Normally, during a new tank cycle, you do not turn the skimmer on or make water changes during the cycling process. You are trying to increase the nitrogen cycle on a new tank, not reduce it.

You should never have so much livestock in such a new tank. But since you do, to keep the fish and invertebrates alive, you should do massive water changes NOW. Change 75% of the system volume at the same temperature and salinity every day, or at least weekly, until your nitrites and nitrates measure safe. Keep up weekly 50% to 75% water changes for the next 1 to 2 months.

Do not add any new livestock until ammonia, nitrite and nitrate measure in the safe range. Re-measure your levels for a month each time you add new livestock. Be prepared to make 50 -75% weekly water changes for a month every time you add new livestock.

Your tank is not stable until the nitrogen levels are safe for three to six months (many people say 1 year!). After that, the tank seems bullet-proof: it absorbs new inhabitants without a glitch in the charts.

 

[DaddyJax]

I agree with ^^ except the biowheel. I have never used one so I might be biased but I have yet to hear anyone having good long term experiences with them.
How much Liverock do you have? If you can catch the remaining fish I would do that and return it to the store where you got them from and ask to hold them until you are done with the cycle. May I ask what store do you use?

 

[Acolin]

public aquariums and municipal waste treatment plants have used rotating biological containers (bio-wheels) for decades...

 

[DaddyJax]

CC and undergravel filters were used for decades as well and public aquariums dont usually have great coral exibits or use a pound of live rock per gallon. I am not trying to get into a argument, I was just stating that I have yet to see any great "current" tanks that use a biowheel. I will agree that it has its place in smaller tanks or even Fish only but with the use of LR the way most tanks are setup today it is not needed and can become a nitrate factory. Much like bioballs.

 

[Acolin]

public aquariums and municipal waste treatment plants used crushed coral and under-gravel filters for decades? NOT

Judge not public aquariums by the modest Tampa one. Most have better coral displays. In fact, I think all of the ones I can think of have better live coral displays, even the sad Miami SeaQuarium.

OK, the one at the Clearwater beach does not, oh yeah, neither does the one at the St. Pete pier...

 

[DaddyJax]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7921892#post7921892 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Acolin
public aquariums and municipal waste treatment plants used crushed coral and under-gravel filters for decades? NOT

Umm...i was refering to home aquariums.

 

[jobadia]

I lost several more fish in the past 2 days! I don't know if it's because the tank is now cycling and the nitrites are very high. I keep doing big water changes! Or if it's because of the ich that my Beauty coral angel brought in. I feel like crap! I should have been more patient, had my hospital tank, quaranteened everything before I put it in there. But I got carried away...

I have a few fish left... tomorrow I'm getting some methylene blue and doing a dip on the remaining fish (for the ich problem). How long should I dip them for? They are 4 damselfish and 1 naso tang. I'm doing the methylene blue (instead of formalin) because I read that it was less toxic, and my remaining fish aren't doing too well.

I have been getting my livestock from either foster & smith, e-tropicals or marine depot. The beauty angel (with the ich) came from PetCo. One of my many mistakes.

I will NEVER EVER put another fish into my tank without dipping and quaranteeing in a hospital tank again!!! I was a freshwater guy before (central american cichlids) and treating fish for ich was not big deal at all. Very different in saltwater!

I am going to put my remaining fish in a hospital tank for the next month, and leave the main tank 'farrow'. Do I need to add anything else to the main tank while it is fishless? Should I lower the salinity? I still have tube worms, snails, a starfish and 1 crab... with they be OK with the ich in there? Should I add something to the quaranteen tank (formalin, methylene blue...???) while the fish are in there?

 

[david8956]

To recap: a 55 gal tank, running a bio-wheel, no skimmer, that has been set up for 2 months. Stocked with an assortment of creatures, including Damselfish, Clownfish, a Coral Beauty, a Naso Tang, a starfish, etc. Everything dying, what a shock.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but there is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. You need to get to a reputable LFS (sorry, none close to Wesley Chapel in my opinion), tell them what you want to do, and then take their advice. If I were you I would do that *today* before doing anything else.

 

[amheck]

Yikes. I was thinking this, but didn't want to say it.

 

[jobadia]

Thank you all for your expert advice. I'm so sorry now that I jumped into all this without the proper info. I guess I will be starting over again... and this time take all the advice you gave me... get the proper equipment, etc.

I see that there is a store on Dale Mabry (FINZ)... I think I'll go there and learn some more stuff.

 

[Acolin]

strongly recommend the books by John Tullock - well worth the price, simple but complete, with the steps you require, keep us posted as make each step...