No Live Rock in the Display?

C

cobra2326

New member
I was daydreaming today and started wondering about this. I think one of the main reasons that a tank with undetectable nutrient levels can still have algae is because there is always a small amount being leached from the rockwork. Whether it be from rotting detritus or just normal biologial filtering. All it takes is a bit of detritus or something to block the flow and algae can use these nutrients as fuel before they can be removed.

Does anyone think the next trend will be to have live rock in a remote sump and just corals with on some type of nonporous structure in the display? Sounds ugly, but if you were creative enough, it could work...
 
There will always be someone who will jump the boat and try something that we have never thought of, and this could very well be one of those things.

But if you were looking for personal opinions..i dont really see it happening. A display tank just doesnt look very "display" like without some of those nice LR that we can get. Also unless the rocks in a remote area can be "shaken" detritus will still gather there causing algae issues. Thats just what i think :)
 
I agree that it would be ugly. Then again, I don't think a bare bottom tank is attractive, either.

As for the detritus in the remote area: I think that most properly run tanks are very efficient at removing nutrients, both organic and inorganic. The problem is that algae can get hold of these nutrients before the proper filtration does. To me, algae growing on rockwork in a remote sump, etc. doesn't pose the same issues that is does growing in a display.
 
I think this could be done but I'm not sure why you would want to. If you have a remote bin of LR... like others have said, detritus will still get inside that rock and without good flow or shaking, will just cause issues anyways. As for nutrients... nitrates are in the water column and not in the rock. LR cannot leach No3. I have found that most tanks will do fine with a No3 level of 5ppm with no algae. Nitrates are of course easier to combat than phosphates. Po4 can actually be in the rock itself and can slowly leach into the water column. If you were having issues with Po4 and algae I would suggest increasing your WC schedule and just making sure your husbandry practices are spot on. NSW levels of Po4 are about .005 I think, but most tanks run at about .02- .2 I would also suggest running GFO or possibly Zeo. The only way to get a handle on Po4 is to increase the output or exportation of the nutrient and decrease the input. Make sure you rinse all frozen food with RO/DI water.

So like I said earlier, this could be done, but you will still have to practice great husbandry skills and still fight the nutrient fight. :)
 
cooking rock

cooking rock

I saw a post about cooking your rock by putting it in to a closed container that stays dark and doing water changes.
So my next question is can that be done plumed to your sys i know that the bad can still get in but if you use a filter sock b4 and keep the rock in the dark??
Just thinking out of the box when i saw this post about a remote live rock.
 
One of the things that attracted me to the marine hobby from fresh was the natural looking displays with live rock aquascaping.

Could it be done without live rock in the display ? I'm sure it can be done. People have already eliminated the sand, why shouldn't the rock be next? Personally I don't want a cutting edge glass/acrylic box with no sand or live rock with my trophy collection of corals in a sterile display.

That said imo most tanks have too much live rock. I see putting more rock in a remote location as a viable alternative to the boxes of rocks too often seen in the hobby.
 
Re: cooking rock

Re: cooking rock

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14983083#post14983083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MikeFisher1972
I saw a post about cooking your rock by putting it in to a closed container that stays dark and doing water changes.
So my next question is can that be done plumed to your sys i know that the bad can still get in but if you use a filter sock b4 and keep the rock in the dark??
Just thinking out of the box when i saw this post about a remote live rock.
Click to expand...

Mike,
That's called a "cryptic zone" and Steve Tyree wrote a book about it.

http://www.dynamicecomorphology.com/
 
I think it could be done without the detritus problem. Detritus happens ;) in the display because we are constantly dumping food in there. We wind up with fish poo, uneaten food and such. A remote LR bin doesn't have that problem. If the drain from the display were mechanically filtered with something like filter socks, and other typical filtration methods such as skimming employed, there would be nowhere near the detritus that you would have in a display.

Would I do it? No. I doubt I would like the look of it. Where would the fish hang out?
 
cleaning the tank is just part of the hobby.

in a wierd way, i kind of enjoy it. it adds to the personal workmanship that goes into the hobby. i went into the reef hobby because of the combo of watching it, and working with it hands on.

i think youre just removing the hands on aspect of the hobby to some degree, and in turn, destroying the pure aesthetic value of just watching the tank and enjoying the fruit of your labor
 
Cooking rock is cooking rock. It has nothing to do with a cryptic zone or Steve T. Cooking rock is a well known method of cleaning old live rock containining many nutrients due to its porous nature. It has been discussed many times in the Chemistry forum so Search should turn up information.

I keep and maintain on a lease basis many SPS tanks that contain very little live rock other than the rock needed on which to attach growing colonies. Other than the mounting rocks my 120 gallon tanks never contain more than 30 to 40 pounds of live rock and they are pretty much out of site under corals. I do not keep fish so my algae and nutrient problems are pretty minimal. The sumps do contain macrolagea, and skimmer(s) and I use RDSB's. I very seldom ever use GFO and use carbon only for short periods of time regularly to maintain water clarity. I do daily automatic water changes.

I would not use the same method with a mixed reef or a mixed reef with fish however.
 
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I'm kind of playing devils advocate here, because I like my tanks with liverock and sand, but in most mature tanks you can't even see the liverock anymore anyway. If you guys have seen the reefscapers link, they used an ugly wireframe to hold the corals, but it's completely hidden when they grow out. Why not try something similar in our tanks? C'mon, it'll be the next trend in reefing :)
 
LAst months TOTM didnt have any live rock, just that reef ceramics stuff. Still porous, but it was all invisible due to his planning and amazing coral growth.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14990589#post14990589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cobra2326
I'm kind of playing devils advocate here, because I like my tanks with liverock and sand, but in most mature tanks you can't even see the liverock anymore anyway. If you guys have seen the reefscapers link, they used an ugly wireframe to hold the corals, but it's completely hidden when they grow out. Why not try something similar in our tanks? C'mon, it'll be the next trend in reefing :)
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the whole time I was posting in this thread. I really like that idea... and you would still need to have LR in a remote location IMO. I was just trying to say that have LR in a remote location instead of in the DT will not solve detritus and nutrient problems.

I love what the reefscapers do and I think that would look pretty cool in an aquarium once grown-in. I think it would great a very natural looking aquarium... plus I love how they attached the corals horizontally instead of vertically.
 
Yes, filter socks would certainly help a great deal. I like 100 micron. There are lots of different ways to maintain a beautiful reef, I say just pick a way that works for you and stick with it! Sometimes we spend so much time testing... and testing... and adding .25ml of this and .5ml of that.. We never take the time to just enjoy our aquariums and watch them grow and develop. I'm kind of a hypocrite in that matter because I run ZeoVit, but like someone else said, I enjoy doing the maintenance on my tank and I don't mind all the dosing and testing but trust me I find time to enjoy my tank. I can actually sit and just watch my skimmer make skimmate. How sad is that? :)
 
That tank still has a ceramic structure. There are a few fairly old Japanese tanks that are almost completely void of live rock in the display and let the corals create the aquascape with fantastic results.

I think the person who has demonstrated this concept amazingly here on reef central is Leonardo_. Here are 2 links to his Formosa Forest and his new reef.

Formosa Forest

Leonardo's Lagoon
 
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Here's one of the old japanese tanks:

1e-1.jpg
 
I don't have much live rock in my display.........most is in the sump.

I have old dead coral heads & branches used as rock...........the kind everyone bought 20 years ago to decorate the tank. My colonies are large & take up most of the space, plus I lke some open areas.

Detritus doesn't exist in my system unless I have a large amount of snails. There is no detritus in the rockwork in the sump or the display.
 
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