No nitrates....is that my problem?
- Thread starter miggs76
- Start date
The food problem is easy... don't use GFO, carbon or GAC unless you are looking to solve a specific problem. The bacteria in the tank, especially if you have an aragonite sand bed, will take care of most of everything. If you have a high load, then the P might rise a little bit and a bit of GFO might be OK, but the natural bacteria should handle the N - a fuge will also take care of most of the excess P, if you happen to have it.
Take a look at the older tank posts - there was no GFO or carbon and people kept their N and P under control and corals looked great. The introduction of vodka, GFO, etc. is way overdone IMO and mostly unnecessary. In the beginning, very experienced people needed it for a very specific problem. After that, it was commercialized and turned into a day-to-day activity that at best about simulates what the tank would have done anyway and, at worst, will rob corals of food. Some have started new tanks using carbon, GFO, etc. that likely never allowed the tank to cycle completely and don't really have a stable ecosystem.
If it is lights, this is harder question and the expectations and experience of the reefer will be the paramount issue. For most hard core SPS keepers, they have never seen a LED lit tank as well as what they have in their own home, or what they have seen. For those without high end tanks or that are newer, then LED tanks look pretty good. It is all up to the individual, so there is no easy answer here and all of us can just speak for ourselves. I might suggest to find locally (something that you can see with your eyes) a tank that you like and copy the lights if you like the color.
Take a look at the older tank posts - there was no GFO or carbon and people kept their N and P under control and corals looked great. The introduction of vodka, GFO, etc. is way overdone IMO and mostly unnecessary. In the beginning, very experienced people needed it for a very specific problem. After that, it was commercialized and turned into a day-to-day activity that at best about simulates what the tank would have done anyway and, at worst, will rob corals of food. Some have started new tanks using carbon, GFO, etc. that likely never allowed the tank to cycle completely and don't really have a stable ecosystem.
If it is lights, this is harder question and the expectations and experience of the reefer will be the paramount issue. For most hard core SPS keepers, they have never seen a LED lit tank as well as what they have in their own home, or what they have seen. For those without high end tanks or that are newer, then LED tanks look pretty good. It is all up to the individual, so there is no easy answer here and all of us can just speak for ourselves. I might suggest to find locally (something that you can see with your eyes) a tank that you like and copy the lights if you like the color.
Outdrsyguy1
New member
I also have a tank that was measuring 0 N and 0 P. I was running GAC and GFO and corals were ridiculously pale. I run LED's and played with the levels but nothing seemed to help. Then I unplugged GAC/GFO and started dosing 10 ml red sea partA/B per day and colors have improved very noticeably over the last month.
Everything I read about reef tanks was scaring me about P to the point that I underfed and kept my tank way too clean. Maybe if I had been doing zeo it would have been great but without nutrients to feed the corals they would just slowly go pale and die.
Everything I read about reef tanks was scaring me about P to the point that I underfed and kept my tank way too clean. Maybe if I had been doing zeo it would have been great but without nutrients to feed the corals they would just slowly go pale and die.
What fish stock do you have?
Have you tried just feeding the fish more?
I don't see having the nitrates and phosphate down that low causing low polyp extension. I have found with my new tank that polyps r much better and colours r getting better having the nitrates 0-0.25ppm and phosphate 0.01-0.03ppm. You could be starving them but I would be careful dumping heaps of food etc in. Slowly take the Gfo offline if u have no phosphates as it won't be doing anything.
Have you tried just feeding the fish more?
I don't see having the nitrates and phosphate down that low causing low polyp extension. I have found with my new tank that polyps r much better and colours r getting better having the nitrates 0-0.25ppm and phosphate 0.01-0.03ppm. You could be starving them but I would be careful dumping heaps of food etc in. Slowly take the Gfo offline if u have no phosphates as it won't be doing anything.
MammothReefer
Active member
I always ran my n & p at zero ran gac/gfo and a low fish load that were mostly fed pellets. I can only think of one piece that would have short stints with paleness. I would just feed more oyster feast or some other coral food. PE was never an issue either. I'd be surprised if n/p at 0 is causing any of your issues. It's a good thing imop
Johnyman
Member
How often do you give oyster feast or some other coral food to the corals?
MammothReefer
Active member
Kind of a "when I remember" sort of deal. At times I would feed it every nite. Sometimes I would go days without. Typically I fed much less the recommended amount. I'm about halfway threw a thing of Reef Roids that I have had for at least a couple years now.
Thank you all for chiming in with my problem. Lots of great info and opinions. Here is my course of action:
1) I am going to do "heavy in heavy out" as far as feeding and I'm switching to more frozen foods than pellets. I've got a very powerful oversized skimmer so even if I'm feeding heavy it will skim out excess nutrients. I've been doing this for a week so I'll continue for 3 more weeks. If I don't notice a difference......
2) Then I'll take the GAC/GFO offline and see how that works....I'll let that ride for a few weeks
3) If #1 and #2 don't work, then I am going to hypothesize that my radion pro is just too bright and I'm going to ramp it down.......I'll let that ride for a few weeks.
At that point if none of the above 3 work then my head is going to explode.
I will update this thread in a few weeks. Thanks again
1) I am going to do "heavy in heavy out" as far as feeding and I'm switching to more frozen foods than pellets. I've got a very powerful oversized skimmer so even if I'm feeding heavy it will skim out excess nutrients. I've been doing this for a week so I'll continue for 3 more weeks. If I don't notice a difference......
2) Then I'll take the GAC/GFO offline and see how that works....I'll let that ride for a few weeks
3) If #1 and #2 don't work, then I am going to hypothesize that my radion pro is just too bright and I'm going to ramp it down.......I'll let that ride for a few weeks.
At that point if none of the above 3 work then my head is going to explode.
I will update this thread in a few weeks. Thanks again
Nanighan
New member
Doing 2 should work, but with an oversize skimmer you may need to feed a lot more or get more fish. I don't have a skimmer or use any form of chemical filtration, but just filter floss in a aquaclear filter. Colors seem so good for me and they grow at a nice pace. I do scoop out detritus and blow out rocks every few days though.
Some vids...watch in HD for sharper video.
Front view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zRJxqJ_Mg
Top down (better for showing color)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qV93Pnwsug
Some vids...watch in HD for sharper video.
Front view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zRJxqJ_Mg
Top down (better for showing color)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qV93Pnwsug
Here is an update after 10 days.......
Heavy feeding of the fish and coral food each night (reef roids, coral smoothie, oyster feast)....
I already see results...the polyps on all of my acros are now totally out at night and starting to sprout out a bit during the day.
Colors haven't intensified very much but it has only been 10 days
Growth tips on almost all corals are clearly visable
I see a bit of algae growing on the rocks and sand, but my hermits are mowing it down each day.
So far so good. Hopefully in another few weeks I'll see more results and post up some pics.
Heavy feeding of the fish and coral food each night (reef roids, coral smoothie, oyster feast)....
I already see results...the polyps on all of my acros are now totally out at night and starting to sprout out a bit during the day.
Colors haven't intensified very much but it has only been 10 days
Growth tips on almost all corals are clearly visable
I see a bit of algae growing on the rocks and sand, but my hermits are mowing it down each day.
So far so good. Hopefully in another few weeks I'll see more results and post up some pics.
michaelis88
New member
plz keep updating
Alex T.
Active member
This is great to hear. I've mentioned this in so many threads it seems like I'm a broken record (if in fact anyone even remembers what a record is). Anyway, I think too many people get hung up on the word "nutrients". We've come to believe nutrients are bad, when in fact they are the building blocks of full nutrition. In the wild, the reefs are nutrient rich and dissolved organic compound poor. The water is teeming with planktonic life that is available to feed corals and fish all day long. In our tanks, this simply cannot be, and would crash our tanks if we attempted to make it so.
People test for nitrates and see they can read them on their kit, and panic. After looking at so many TOTM tanks, it would appear that those who have extremely bright and powerful lighting and long photoperiods have measurable nitrates and phosphates in the water. Those who have great color with no measurable nitrate and phosphate seem to find a sweet spot with a much shorter photoperiod. Within reason, the longer you light 'em up, the more nutrients seem to be necessary to color them up and help them grow, and vice versa. This makes perfect sense. It would be akin to riding in the tour de France and not expecting to eat on the bike or get water and Gatorade refills to replenish your exerted energy stores. Photosynthesis requires energy as well. This is purely my opinion and observation, but I've stopped considering it a coincidence. When someone says they feed heavily and have 0 nitrates and phosphates you need to take it with a (pun intended) grain of salt. Ask exactly what they feed, how much and how often and you may be surprised that it wouldn't be considered heavy feeding at all to someone else. I've only got 7 fish in a 195 tank (Achilles tang, Tomato Clown, 2 Anthias, Yellow Tail Blue Devil, Bellus Angel and Leopard Wrasse. I run a Bubble King Supermarin 200 skimmer, change 25 gallons of water weekly, run carbon and gfo in a reactor and stir the sand bed and wipe the glass every couple of days. I have some algae on my rocks here and there, and my SPS didn't look good until I got my nitrates around 5 ppm and phosphates between .03 - .06. I have approximately 120 pounds of live rock and feed a cube of mysis, brine, half teaspoon of NLS pellets and a 2 inch nori square to the Achilles every other day. I also dose 4 drops of Brightwell's coral aminos and a drop of Lugol's solution every day for my water volume. I shop vac the sump clean and have what most would consider an understocked and "clean" system, however my water parameters read what most would call "dirty". Unless you're running ULNS and dosing all sorts or additives, keeping some dirt in the water seems to do the trick for me in coloring up the SPS and getting better polyp extension, especially if you run your lights long like I do (13 hours supplemental, and 7 hours for 3 250 watt Radiums in Lumenmax Elite reflectors on Galaxy Select a Watt ballasts).
Lastly, be very conservative with introducing coral foods to your tank. At first this may seem like a great idea, but they are extremely rich in phosphates. I've achieved the same results by just feeding the fish when they're hungry. As my corals grow out and have more polyps to feed, I may add OysterFeast back to my regimen. Just take it slow.
I will....every few weeks
This is good info. Much appreciated!
jfuka78
New member
I am really starting to agree with you on this issue. I am going to start over feeding rods food rather than just spectrum pellets and nori. I have been having issues with Sps for a while now.
Here is another update...its been over 3 weeks and I am still feeding about 3 times a day with rod's food and/or rogger's food. Definitely better colors...no doubt. I will post up a pic this week if I remember. My purple stylo looks great and some of the acros are coming back to life. What really is surprising me is this: My nitrates are still undetectable and my phosphates are at .01 with a hanna ultra low phosphourus meter. This may be key for me.....heavy in, heavy out because my skimmer is rated at 180 gallons and my tank is only 60. The corals are getting food but at the same time my water quality is still good. I am finally getting confident that I've found my solution.
Alex T.
Active member
This is the exact reason I started my dirty sps tank thread. You see more and more heavily fed tanks with beautiful SPS colors and growth these days.
barramundi
New member
Following along with this and Alex T dirty sps tank thread.
I am also trying feeding heavy and frequent water changes, been going for about 4 weeks now and I think I am starting to see a change in my sps colour.
I am also trying feeding heavy and frequent water changes, been going for about 4 weeks now and I think I am starting to see a change in my sps colour.
