no satisfaction: Color& Polypexpansion

[ddnguyen]

hi there

my name ist Viet and im living in Germany and keeping my small 60L reef since 1 Year.

so here s the Problem:

I got a friend who has a slightly bigger tank but approximatley same specifications on lighting /flow / etc...

We both use Cree LEDs, i got 24 Crees rb/r4 on 60L Tank + 2 x 24 W T5 Ati Aquablue Spezial, he got the same on his 100L tank.

i got rich flow but not directly, its a smooth strong flow in every corner (1 x 4000L resun and 1 x 5000L sunsun)

we have aprox water specs

ca 430
mg 1400
kh 7-8
no3/po4 n/a ( there is some of it in the tank cause of some algae grow at the back window but tests arent that exact)

we both has same coral frags from the same mother corals, but they develop very different.... or lets say his corals remain in color and polypexpansion , my change to bad.

We both use Balling light to keep ca and alkalinity constant, + nano coral reef food at night , and we have 4 small fishes which are feeded well.

The only difference was the salinity, his was 1.023 mine was 1.027 i know to high, just corrected it, and i got a thick glass as protection for my LED DIY, but i removed it too.


But still i cant see sth getting better.....
the polyp expansion is very bad and the color very pale. The polyps are very small and not max expanded, and i just bought a Acropora Selago in green, first days it had polyps like Hair also during the day, but after a week the plyps getting less extended....

see the pics, and i will upload some pics from the corals before before they changed!

pls help me!

regards

viet

my tank ( a bit older pic total view)

my corals

the green monti digitata after 6 month, Growing is ok but polyps are small and color very pale..

the colour and polyp expansion 6 moth ago of my green montipora digitata

u can see the polyps are expanded maximum and are thicker, nicer color...

 

[ddnguyen]

 

[ddnguyen]

http://www.riffaquaristikforum.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55872

http://www.riffaquaristikforum.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55876

 

[Reefman29]

What kind of water do you use? Do you filter the same way?

 

[ddnguyen]

hi
at the moment we use the exactly same water (since 2 Month) , he got a reverse osmose, and i m always going to him getting my water there.

I use Reef Crystals and Tropic Marin Pro Reef every week for a 10% Water Change...

every deeper color changed to pale and not deep, especially green SPS like Montis and Acroporas, they getting changed sth between yellow and green.

u may think now i got a lack of trace elements, but i do 10% Waterchange weekly and 2 days before Waterchange i dose Grotech ABC Trace elements, not as much as recommanded on the instruction, but i have enough trace elemtns due water changes imo.....

thx for helping!

 

[Reefman29]

What about placement? Do you protein skim or anything like that?

 

[ddnguyen]

hi

what are u meaning with " placement"?

due i have only 60L i use i small Sander Piccolo Skimmer (bubble driven) day and night, only at time where i feed my corals i turn it off.
It is doing its job (change the wood part every 4 week) well i think, my water is crystal clear and i got no major algae grow since im feeding much and have strong lighting for this tank.
only some algae at the back, but im never cleaning it and hermits and snails do it...

 

[mike_cmu04]

Something is different either the placement of corals so they are getting different lighting or flow. Also are the lighting periods different?

 

[Bigmike]

How do you two monitor your tempatures? With his bigger tank it might be the case that he has a more stable tempature throughout the day and night compared to yours?

 

[ddnguyen]

hi

ah ok. the placement is a bit different.
His LEDs and T5 are higher then mine, my sps are on the top of the reef and his are at the middle.

this is his reef

I tried to replicate his Lightning sitation and put my LED higher now like his and removed the Glass, this was few days ago, but im thinking the sps ony getting bit browner, not more colorful.

Btw his corals have more brown, but the color is deeper and the polyps colorful, my polyps are very bright.

this is my pink pocci as the LED was very close, now led is a bit higher it turns darker and browner like his pocci ( at the center of his tank at the blue-yellow fish), but NOT more colorful.

@ big mike :

our temp. are very constant 25° , its Winter in Germany at the moment and in the room we have constant 23°....

i know my water spec are not so constant like his cause he has mor water, but im very exactly with dosing and waterrefill more then him, but still his tank went better. btw my tank runs 12 month, his 8 month..

 

[ddnguyen]

At the first pic his colors do not seem very well but they are really deeper and his polyp expansion is so much better, he has huge , fleshy polyps covering all of the Monti body f.e.

2nd pic shows the green selago after 1 day u can see nice polyps, after 1 week they became shorter and less extended, at night only the top polyps expand for catching food...

and by the way @ mike: i think my lightning period is different, it s longer i think, 14 h, his 12 i think...

 

[Dustin1300]

I'd agree with above posted. Just because they are similar does not mean that your lighting, temperature, and flow are identical. A small variance in one can really make the difference between the two. Instead of comparing to the friends let's focus on yours!

First off, what is your Nitrates and Phosphates?

 

[ddnguyen]

hi

@dustin ok, focus on mine ure right...

i have only bad water tests for p04/no3 by JBL and Salifert, they are not exactly.
they dont turn in any color, so its very low....

i tested it and put some pure no3 /po4 to calibrate the tests they work, but in not exactly at this low levels....

i will get to the dealer tomorrow and let him test my no3/po4 more exactly...

 

[Bigmike]

14 hours seems like a fairly long photoperiod. Id definitely start by cutting it down to at least 12 h, if not shorter.

For what its worth, I think your corals look happy and healthy

 

[ddnguyen]

hi

i reduced photo period to 12h now....
and just testet no3/po4 again, Salifert p04 shows no color changed, not even a slight blue(o,o3mg/l) and nitrate no color change means >0,5mg/l.........

i could never detect somw no4/po3 in my tank due tests, but there must be definitley a bit in my tank, because if i dont clean my glasses algae grows on it.....

@ mike my corals do look "ok", but color and polyp expansion far away from the dealer or my friends tank (look the pics in the LINK, they a closer and colors more realistic cause less blue leds) i m trying since 8 month to get the color back but no way.... i need to get the point..... and i really got patience...

 

[ddnguyen]

hey

some has a hint when you take a look at the pics (polypexpansion, color) what maybe is wrong in my tank?

regards
viet

 

[Ostentum]

Flow and placement in the tank have a huge amount to do with the color and polyp extension in my experience. Its not so much as having alot of flow as it is having changing flow so the corals can more effectively remove waste. Also are you using an auto top off, whats your PH? Since you have a much smaller water volume your system is more susceptible to larger swings. Also have you tested your water temp at different points during the day. I know you stated that you have a constant temp of 25C, is that the house temperature. For an example I keep my house at a constant 79F, ie 26C but my tank swings in temp from 78-80 during the day. Depending on the location of the tank and the airflow in the room I have seen tanks get alot hotter. For an example my 140g I had to run a chiller to keep it from going above 80 while the 110g in the same house in a different room with the same lighting and equipment doesnt break 79.5. Just something to think about.

 

[ddnguyen]

hi ostentum ty for your reply

hm yeah imo i think constance in everything is the Key for nice sps, but u know in 60L its quit hard , but i got to make it

But how create changing flow with 2 props without a computercontrolled like vortech?
imo i think my flow is at least ok, beacause the polyps swings in different directions and not regulary.... but sure there can be better flow but how? and how better placement referring to Light?

the temp. i think isnt a problem because i use LEDs which dont radiate Heat into the tank, and the T5 dont do that much, the temp. is really constant between 24-25°.... sure in summer its a problem ( but i have special fans) but atm its not so significant imo....

i have to auto top off, i dose Balling per hand atm , but im getting a 2 way dose pump to dose Alk and Ca more regulary.
My auto refill pump cracked 2 and atm i refill per hand, getting new pump soon.....

some opinions referring to my bad polyp expansion?
what can be reasons?
Bad po4/no3 level?
to much light?
bad flow?
some chem. warfare (have some soft corals and lps and small cribrinopsis crassa anemonas in my tank too...)

best regards
viet

 

[bmiller1234]

I think you might have starving corals. You mentioned only two small fish. the best food for sps is fish poo. I battles this for several months. When my tank was young I feared algae and did everything I could to prevent it. That caused me a sterile tank and had no food for sps.

algae can easily be controlled with nutrient export. it seems your very good at water changes and stick to a schedule. I would ramp your feeding up maybe an extra 50 percent more than your feeding now. I have found great results turning my skimmer off for two nights a week when I feed a coral supplement. This gives a nice ten to twelve hours for corals to fees buffet style. If your doing 10% weekly water change you could try going to a two week schedule. A little "dirt" in the water is a good thing and won't cause you problems. A nice 10 or 20 of nitrates and a .1 of ohosphates will color up your corals quite quickly. the hard part is keeping it in control. If they rise it will cause problems. But if you can find that sweet spot where things stay stable your corals will take off.

 

[ddnguyen]

hi brian
ty for your reply

im feeding now since 1 Week every night some nano coral food, and i started to feed the fishes more....lets see if something changes, could work out
mb i ll get brown corals or the color improves