Noisiest overflow EVER!! HELP!!
- Thread starter hyrumbradshaw
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hyrumbradshaw
New member
ok got the thing worked out but now I need to replace the pump any suggestions on a new pump for 3/4 bulkhead and i guess it will have about 5 feet of head
GuySmilie
Premium Member
Why do you need to replace the pump? Is it broken?
As for a replacement suggestion, it really all depends on what you wish to accomplish with your set up. Some systems do better with a lot of flow, while some do better with less flow. But as a very general and generic guideline, a return water system flow rate would be around 5 to 10 times the volume of your system (per hour). As for brands, Eheim, Ocean Runner, and Pentair get my vote.
As for a replacement suggestion, it really all depends on what you wish to accomplish with your set up. Some systems do better with a lot of flow, while some do better with less flow. But as a very general and generic guideline, a return water system flow rate would be around 5 to 10 times the volume of your system (per hour). As for brands, Eheim, Ocean Runner, and Pentair get my vote.
hyrumbradshaw
New member
The pump that is in there is a home depot pond pump, it has a metal shaft that is not "reef safe"
Follow waht Guy said earlier. Whatever return pum you settle on, install a valve between the return pump and the tank so that you can "tune" your flow back into the tank to best match your drain.
As for the drain... you can increase the diameter of all your plumping to 6", drill 1000 holes, and it wont have any affect on the amount of water that goes through your 3/4" bulkhead. If you cannot/willnot increase the bulkhead, size the return as close as possible and tune with the valve until the desired water height. then adjust the noise using the hole on top of your "T".
I suggest drilling a single 1/4" hole on the T... attaching a 10" airline to the hole using silicone, with a standard airflow regulator on the end. you can now tune the airflow perfectly to the subtlety of your system and adjust later for when the pump performance degrades.
As for the drain... you can increase the diameter of all your plumping to 6", drill 1000 holes, and it wont have any affect on the amount of water that goes through your 3/4" bulkhead. If you cannot/willnot increase the bulkhead, size the return as close as possible and tune with the valve until the desired water height. then adjust the noise using the hole on top of your "T".
I suggest drilling a single 1/4" hole on the T... attaching a 10" airline to the hole using silicone, with a standard airflow regulator on the end. you can now tune the airflow perfectly to the subtlety of your system and adjust later for when the pump performance degrades.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
As ASM has explained,
The overflow will oscillate between full siphon and open channel flow. This can be stopped by prevent the full siphon from forming. However, it may also mean that the setup will NOT be able to handle the full flow of the return pump.
Anyway, there is a bigger problem. The overflow "looks nice" but is pretty much useless. In the current configuration there is NO surface skimming and even if half of the pipe was exposed, it would still not surface skim very well at all.
Honestly, I suggest an entire rework of the overflow. There needs to be an overflow box in place to provide proper surface skimming.
Folks, what looks "cool" does not always function efficiently.
The overflow will oscillate between full siphon and open channel flow. This can be stopped by prevent the full siphon from forming. However, it may also mean that the setup will NOT be able to handle the full flow of the return pump.
Anyway, there is a bigger problem. The overflow "looks nice" but is pretty much useless. In the current configuration there is NO surface skimming and even if half of the pipe was exposed, it would still not surface skim very well at all.
Honestly, I suggest an entire rework of the overflow. There needs to be an overflow box in place to provide proper surface skimming.
Folks, what looks "cool" does not always function efficiently.
hyrumbradshaw
New member
beananimal how would you suggest i set it up with only one hole drilled in the back towards the top?
Just an overflow box and have it drain straight to the bulkhead with no attachments to the bulkhead inside the tank?
Just an overflow box and have it drain straight to the bulkhead with no attachments to the bulkhead inside the tank?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I would use a "calfo style" overflow to maximize the surface skimming. A down turned elbow in the box and a durso style standpipe (as explained by others) on the back.
A single bulkhead is certainly not the ideal setup from a failsafe standpoint. You can get it quiet with some tinkering... but it will always be prone to clogging that will case a system overflow!
A single bulkhead is certainly not the ideal setup from a failsafe standpoint. You can get it quiet with some tinkering... but it will always be prone to clogging that will case a system overflow!
NanoReefWanabe
Active member
if your not inclined to install a cafco overflow...then you could also try using a 1" or PVC piep with a single 1/4" slot cut in it the length of the pipe, save an inch or two in either end....put a cap on one end and attach your 45* and elbow to the other...rotate the slot to be parallel with the surface of the water...
this will work great for surface skimming...
as for your pump issues...i assume your using a submersible pump and in that case i would go with a Mag5 or even a Mag3...also assuming your pumping from a sump in the stand...and not remote location..(ie basement) after head loss the mag five should put you around 300gph to your tank...the Mag3 should leave you around 175ish gph...the mag3 is the better choice in my ind given the size of your bulkhead...
also a side note.
covering the vent hole on your durso will create a full siphon, as soon as the water level in the tank is above the top of the bulkhead...(provided water has started to drain by then) either way once the water is above the BH you will get a full siphon...uncovering the vent hole will allow the drain to revert to semi siphon/ possibly gravity drain...in either case if nothing is done to control the flow of the pump to the tank it will overflow eventually...guaranteed...so covering the vent to achieve desired water level is not a safe practice...
someone mentioned earlier that size of vent hole will not effect the tank level...well you are very wrong...in this particular setup with no overflow box...vent hole will directly effect the water level in the tank...as it will prevent the pipe from siphoning if it is too bing...if thepipe cant establish a semi siphon or a full siphon then the level of the water will be very high if not overflowing given the flow from the pump and the size of the BH...if there where an overflow box then the vent hole would effect the water level in the overflow box...and not the tank unless it was so high above the overflow that it was then effecting the height of the tank aswell..
as Bean mentioned two holes are better then one aswell...
or you could do it the way mine is done and be done with the noise and any flood problems...how is that? i have a 1.5" bulkhead...flex pipe to the sump, down turned elbow on the tank side with a 1/8" hole in the top of it...right above the water level...and only 200GPH from my return...the fish pooping make more noise then my drain..
this will work great for surface skimming...
as for your pump issues...i assume your using a submersible pump and in that case i would go with a Mag5 or even a Mag3...also assuming your pumping from a sump in the stand...and not remote location..(ie basement) after head loss the mag five should put you around 300gph to your tank...the Mag3 should leave you around 175ish gph...the mag3 is the better choice in my ind given the size of your bulkhead...
also a side note.
covering the vent hole on your durso will create a full siphon, as soon as the water level in the tank is above the top of the bulkhead...(provided water has started to drain by then) either way once the water is above the BH you will get a full siphon...uncovering the vent hole will allow the drain to revert to semi siphon/ possibly gravity drain...in either case if nothing is done to control the flow of the pump to the tank it will overflow eventually...guaranteed...so covering the vent to achieve desired water level is not a safe practice...
someone mentioned earlier that size of vent hole will not effect the tank level...well you are very wrong...in this particular setup with no overflow box...vent hole will directly effect the water level in the tank...as it will prevent the pipe from siphoning if it is too bing...if thepipe cant establish a semi siphon or a full siphon then the level of the water will be very high if not overflowing given the flow from the pump and the size of the BH...if there where an overflow box then the vent hole would effect the water level in the overflow box...and not the tank unless it was so high above the overflow that it was then effecting the height of the tank aswell..
as Bean mentioned two holes are better then one aswell...
or you could do it the way mine is done and be done with the noise and any flood problems...how is that? i have a 1.5" bulkhead...flex pipe to the sump, down turned elbow on the tank side with a 1/8" hole in the top of it...right above the water level...and only 200GPH from my return...the fish pooping make more noise then my drain..
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Which brings up another point...
Add a John Guest valve to yoru standpipes air intake. This allows adjustment. Attach an airline to the valve and curl it over and clamp it to the rim of the tank so that it is just above the desired maximum water level. If the water rises past that, it will block the airline and create a full siphon. This acts as a small failsafe in case somethin gets slightly out of whack.
Add a John Guest valve to yoru standpipes air intake. This allows adjustment. Attach an airline to the valve and curl it over and clamp it to the rim of the tank so that it is just above the desired maximum water level. If the water rises past that, it will block the airline and create a full siphon. This acts as a small failsafe in case somethin gets slightly out of whack.
hyrumbradshaw
New member
I am guessing you would put the airline tubing in the water??
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Icefire... I am not sure what you mean.
Hyrum... no
The air hole in the top of the standpipe allows air to be drawn in with the water. This prevents the standpipe from starting a full siphon and sucking the overflow box dry (think of a toilet flushing).
The size of the hole determines the amount of air that gets mixed with the water. Or in other words how much of a siphon is allowed to form. However, there is a problem. At some point the system will be balanced. The water level in the overflow box will be stable. However, a change in barometric pressure, a snail, a slime coat in the pipes, or any number of other things can cause the system to get slightly out of balance.
Because you do not have a secondary (emergency) overflow, an imbalance could cause the tank to overflow!
So what can you do to get a bit more safety? Attach an airline to the air intake hole on the durso. Position this line just above the maximum safe operating level in the overflow box (or tank rim). Under normal operating conditions the airline will not be submerged and can suck in air.
In the event that the water level rises too high, the open end of the airline will become submerged. This will block the air intake into the standpipe and cause it to create a full siphon. The standpipe will flow more when it is acting as a siphon. You will come home to hear the overflow box flushing and gurgling periodically like a toilet. That is if the standpipe has not been impeded by a snail or other restriction too big to allow the full flow of the return pump to pass, even under a full siphon.
Hyrum... no
The air hole in the top of the standpipe allows air to be drawn in with the water. This prevents the standpipe from starting a full siphon and sucking the overflow box dry (think of a toilet flushing).
The size of the hole determines the amount of air that gets mixed with the water. Or in other words how much of a siphon is allowed to form. However, there is a problem. At some point the system will be balanced. The water level in the overflow box will be stable. However, a change in barometric pressure, a snail, a slime coat in the pipes, or any number of other things can cause the system to get slightly out of balance.
Because you do not have a secondary (emergency) overflow, an imbalance could cause the tank to overflow!
So what can you do to get a bit more safety? Attach an airline to the air intake hole on the durso. Position this line just above the maximum safe operating level in the overflow box (or tank rim). Under normal operating conditions the airline will not be submerged and can suck in air.
In the event that the water level rises too high, the open end of the airline will become submerged. This will block the air intake into the standpipe and cause it to create a full siphon. The standpipe will flow more when it is acting as a siphon. You will come home to hear the overflow box flushing and gurgling periodically like a toilet. That is if the standpipe has not been impeded by a snail or other restriction too big to allow the full flow of the return pump to pass, even under a full siphon.
hyrumbradshaw
New member
ok but do i really need to be worried about a clog or my drain slowing down with the setup that I have? all the small holes drilled in the pipe will prevent anything big enough from getting to the bulkhead and clogging it AND since there are so many holes if one does get clogged it wont (shouldnt) slow the flow down at all.
Now I am new and appreciate the suggestions and comments and I may incorporate some of these ideas to my setup. I do welcome suggestions and thank you for them, I just like to understand things.....
Now I am new and appreciate the suggestions and comments and I may incorporate some of these ideas to my setup. I do welcome suggestions and thank you for them, I just like to understand things.....
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I am not quite sure how to respond. Please take the comments in stride (you appear to want to learn).
1) Your current setup is terrible. It DOES NOT allow for ANY surface skimming. It looks cool, but does not provide a suitable overflow for an aquarium.
2) Even IF the water level was PERFECT (running at eactly the midpoint of MOST of the holes)... the surface skimming would still not be adequite.
3) The water level in your tank indicates that the overflow is nearly maxed out. Small changes in water or barometric pressure, or a gradual buildup of a slime coat can drastically change the operating parameters of the system.
4) You have complained about noise. The way your system is setup WILL be noisy. Your system relys on a partial siphon to keep up with the return pump . Using a "durso" or "stockman" type of setup will reduce the noise, but also reduce the capacity of the overflow by preventing the siphon.
Here is the bottom line.
1) Reduce the size of (or throttle) the return pump and also add a noise reducing standpipe. Live with the fact that you have no surface skimming (not a good idea).
-or-
2) rethink the whole project.
1) Your current setup is terrible. It DOES NOT allow for ANY surface skimming. It looks cool, but does not provide a suitable overflow for an aquarium.
2) Even IF the water level was PERFECT (running at eactly the midpoint of MOST of the holes)... the surface skimming would still not be adequite.
3) The water level in your tank indicates that the overflow is nearly maxed out. Small changes in water or barometric pressure, or a gradual buildup of a slime coat can drastically change the operating parameters of the system.
4) You have complained about noise. The way your system is setup WILL be noisy. Your system relys on a partial siphon to keep up with the return pump . Using a "durso" or "stockman" type of setup will reduce the noise, but also reduce the capacity of the overflow by preventing the siphon.
Here is the bottom line.
1) Reduce the size of (or throttle) the return pump and also add a noise reducing standpipe. Live with the fact that you have no surface skimming (not a good idea).
-or-
2) rethink the whole project.
hyrumbradshaw
New member
Haha I do want to learn! The noise is no longer a problem....
I looked at the caflow (spelling?) did not like, I mean its probably no worse looking than what I have now haha..
If I change anything I would like to put an overflow in the corner, one that goes all the way to the bottom of the tank. with that said, is that a good idea? what size? tell me what I would need to know please. I am all about DIY!
I looked at the caflow (spelling?) did not like, I mean its probably no worse looking than what I have now haha..
If I change anything I would like to put an overflow in the corner, one that goes all the way to the bottom of the tank. with that said, is that a good idea? what size? tell me what I would need to know please. I am all about DIY!
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
hyrum...
The noise is no longer a problem because the overflow is fully submerged and NOT surface skimming.
The corner overflow will be limited in the amount of surface skimming it will provide. Extending it to the bottom of the tank will only create a detritus trap (a place for stuff to settle and rot.
We are trying to tell you what you need to know... you just don't appear to like what you are hearing!
The noise is no longer a problem because the overflow is fully submerged and NOT surface skimming.
The corner overflow will be limited in the amount of surface skimming it will provide. Extending it to the bottom of the tank will only create a detritus trap (a place for stuff to settle and rot.
We are trying to tell you what you need to know... you just don't appear to like what you are hearing!
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