Not sure what to think...Ice Fire Echinata or wild piece???

[slojmn]

I bought a large 3-4" multi-branch "Ice Fire Echinata" from a vendor in my local area. When I was at the store I asked if he had the original Ice Fire and he confirmed yes, this was from his own personal tank at home, his colony is very large and he confirmed it was "the" Ice Fire from James at Aquascene. I have no reason not to believe him. The branch was really browned out but had blue tips and "just needs to color up". In my mind there is no reason for a vendor to not be honest at this level with me and he knew exactly what I wanted and had a lot of nice pieces of many old school SPS.

What is weird is that the branch has a barnacle on it....I was looking at it through my mesoscope to see how it was acclimating to my tank, polyps were out and I was pleased that it seemed quite content, then I saw the sweep of the barnacle. I found this strange. I have only EVER seen barnacles on wild caught corals and some maricultured pieces, never on pieces that have been sitting in a reefers tank and that have been traded for years in home aquariums. It just seems odd to me that there would be a barnacle on this coral that has been in captivity for a long time. Furthermore my experience with barnacles is that they waste away in my tank and don't spread. Has anyone had barnacles move to aquacultured pieces in their tanks and then live out a long and healthy life on a colony that has not seen the wild ever???

 

[Digitalelectric]

Nope. Our water is too clean for those suckers. Ive had a few show up on rocks n stuff in the past and like you said they just wither away.

 

[sahin]

I bought a large 3-4" multi-branch "Ice Fire Echinata" from a vendor in my local area. When I was at the store I asked if he had the original Ice Fire and he confirmed yes, this was from his own personal tank at home, his colony is very large and he confirmed it was "the" Ice Fire from James at Aquascene. I have no reason not to believe him. The branch was really browned out but had blue tips and "just needs to color up". In my mind there is no reason for a vendor to not be honest at this level with me and he knew exactly what I wanted and had a lot of nice pieces of many old school SPS.

What is weird is that the branch has a barnacle on it....I was looking at it through my mesoscope to see how it was acclimating to my tank, polyps were out and I was pleased that it seemed quite content, then I saw the sweep of the barnacle. I found this strange. I have only EVER seen barnacles on wild caught corals and some maricultured pieces, never on pieces that have been sitting in a reefers tank and that have been traded for years in home aquariums. It just seems odd to me that there would be a barnacle on this coral that has been in captivity for a long time. Furthermore my experience with barnacles is that they waste away in my tank and don't spread. Has anyone had barnacles move to aquacultured pieces in their tanks and then live out a long and healthy life on a colony that has not seen the wild ever???

Alicia, I agree with your observations re the barnacles on wild and Mari pieces. I also agree with the observations re their lifespan in home aquaria.

My question is why was his colony browned out?
Was his other colonies browned out?
Was the colony growing on his rock work?
Does he have photos of the colony going back more than a couple of years etc? Or even a photo showing the coral in it's coloured form?

The answers to the above would sort of help me in deciding with greater conviction that a coral was of genuine lineage.

 

[sahin]

Also wanted to add that I got barnacles on at least 3 pieces of sps which were maricultured. All the barnacles died off within a month or two. I have other filter feeders such as various fan worms and even sponges do fine and proliferate in my tank, but these barnacles seem to require something that our tanks cannot provide.

Also I've experienced sellers at that level try pass off corals that are not what they claim to be. I don't know this guy, but at least he should have photos showing the growth and colours of the coral at various stages?

Anyway, you have a knack for growing beautifully coloured SPS so in your tank, I am sure this piece will colour up in no time. :thumbsup:

 

[slojmn]

My question is why was his colony browned out?
Was his other colonies browned out?
Was the colony growing on his rock work?
Does he have photos of the colony going back more than a couple of years etc? Or even a photo showing the coral in it's coloured form?

The answers to the above would sort of help me in deciding with greater conviction that a coral was of genuine lineage.

I didn't even think to ask about photo of his colony at home. I have no idea what the colony in his tank is growing on, I would assume rock work as he noted it was quite large. He attributed the brown out to fragging and bringing the larger pieces and the frags he had made into the shop tank and they just needed some time to adjust. I was definitely surprised by this but noted that many reefers have the Ice Fire up high and it gets the blue tips with a very light color on the branches so the tan/browning on the interior of the branches seemed plausible. I prefer to keep the Ice Fire lower and get the green and blue darker variation...

There were nicely colored frags and colonies as well as some brown outs in the holding tanks...I have no idea as to how the coral looks in his "home tank" but I do believe it is an echinata as its growth form matches...but the original "Ice Fire"...I just don't think so with the barnacle on it. I am hoping to color it up very nicely no matter what but not being sure of lineage bums me out since that is what I specifically wanted.

I have an email into him about this...I have yet to hear from him. He's local so I can go back to the store at some point and ask more questions if I don't get a response.

 

[rogerwilco357]

how about a picture of yours ? are you happy with it ? would like to see it.

 

[slojmn]

how about a picture of yours ? are you happy with it ? would like to see it.

Honestly, it's hard to tell my "happy" level. I'm disappointed in that I believe it is not the Ice Fire but I love echinatas and if it colors up nicely I will be thrilled. The coloring up will take time and who knows what it will do, especially since it appears to be out of the ocean rather than what I expected. I just found another barnacle on it....up towards the top of the branch but it appears to be dead. I haven't taken a picture yet but I'll give it a try, it's in a tough spot for picture taking.

 

[slojmn]

Here is a head on shot with another coral that kind of blocks it...you can see the bluish tips but the overall brown hue...YUCK!! Polyps are out, overall health looks good...but the color is reminiscent of a mediocre stressed out wild piece just in from shipping that needs time to color up...

Here is a shot from the side and the barnacle is clearly visible in the very upper, right branch area toward the top, looks like a swirly disc shape with a little spiky pattern. Again, the lovely color of brownish/tan. Disappointment level is getting higher!! But, if it colors up nicely over time I could be happy with it. At this point I am 90% sure this is not the Ice Fire Echinata from Aquascene...really, the barnacles are a dead giveaway!!

 

[dvanacker]

Never seen a wild echinata with that green base and blue tips..only cream or brown base and blue tips.

At least people around here know the difference....probably only a handful in Canada would know the difference. Any wild echinata that comes in is "ice fire"...wish more people appreciated sps that has been captive grown for years.

Seems pretty obvious the seller was less than truthful and this exact thing has happened to.a few people on this forum ie. claiming aquascene echinata but getting wild.

 

[slojmn]

Never seen a wild echinata with that green base and blue tips..only cream or brown base and green tips.

At least people around here know the difference....probably only a handful in Canada would know the difference. Any wild echinata that comes in is "ice fire"...wish more people appreciated sps that has been captive grown for years.

Seems pretty obvious the seller was less than truthful and this exact thing has happened to.a few people on this forum ie. claiming aquascene echinata but getting wild.

Darryl, agreed....I am surprised I fell for it. i am pretty discerning, lol, not this time!!

I have access to the real IceFire Echinata and, if he has any frags available, I will be getting one in the next few weeks...definitely my most trusted source. I tried to support a local place and this is what happens . Kind of sucks. I did get a few other nice pieces, only one named and I am pretty sure it is the real deal...but again, time will tell.

 

[sahin]

Having seen so many different kinds of wild pieces that looks very much like the typical wild/Mari pieces that come in. Still, it has the potential to be a very nice coral; I highly doubt it's the ice fire from aquascene.

 

[slojmn]

Agreed!!! Since I have not heard back from the local guy at the LFS it reinforces my thinking that I was duped....to good to be true, hehehehe. He just lost my business and potentially more....I know a whole lotta folks .

 

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

Slojmn, sorry to hear whats going on. I really wish I knew how to keep acropora ? The last time I had a 150 gallon. I put all sps in there and they were all big colonies from aquatic gallery in milpitas ca. I had the halide lighting and geo calcium reactor and couldnt even get the media to operate properly and dissolve the media, it never happened for me... I really hope to learn how to keep sps one day. Sorry I dumped this on you, it just brought back memories...

 

[selje]

Sorry to hear about your LFS competance. Here's a couple of Echinatas that came to Norway from Australia yesterday. I believe all are wild. Ice Fire??:spin2:

 

[Dustin1300]

You really know how to kick a man when he's down don't you maskin?

 

[slojmn]

Sorry to hear about your LFS competance. Here's a couple of Echinatas that came to Norway from Australia yesterday. I believe all are wild. Ice Fire??:spin2:

Those are beautiful. One can only hope this imposter will color up in that direction. Thanks for sharing .

 

[selje]

You really know how to kick a man when he's down don't you maskin?

Lol, not my intention

I hope your piece will color up. Only time will tell:spin2:

 

[slojmn]

I'm crossing my fingers but not holding my breath . I still have not gotten a response from the vendor...figures!!

 

[slojmn]

I received this response from the vendor:
"I got that piece traded in on a rock half bleached out. Was traded in as og aquascene icefire. If it isnt I am more than happy giving you credit. It is an icefire ench. But I have no way of tracing it just word of mouth. Sorry for inconvenience."

My thoughts are that if you are not sure you should say that when someone asks for a specific coral. I certainly took the risk being that it was all browned out and that was a give away of "to good to be true". I am pleased for the apology and now I know that the vendor is not as discerning as I need when it comes to specific corals I might be looking for in the future. Store credit is a nice gesture, I appreciate it but I'm not sure what I will want to get from him in the future.