November Meeting
- Thread starter Spongie
- Start date
DevinWolfe
New member
And people wonder why Tennessee is ranked #2 out of 50 for highest incidence of violent crime per capita...(source)
Mac's Source said:
That data makes no claim that any of those violent crimes involved a weapon of any kind (barring "aggrevated assault" none of them even require a weapon of any kind). Also, 2006 was our national all-time high for crimes altogether.
The FBI's crime report from 2009 show that nationwide while gun sales are at an all-time high crime is at a 45 year low.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2009/crime2009
Edit: >Violent Crimes, the link wont save my tab.
I know you probably didn't completely mean that guns were bad but more guns = less crime - criminals are less likely to approach a person or property knowing that the odds today are much greater that there will be a firearm present versus 4-5 years ago.
I think a meeting at Coal Creek would be cool, maybe after the "official" meeting sometime just for those who are interested in such activities. Fronteir Firearms in Harriman is supposed to be open now with "smart targets" that are programmable and semi-interactive.
Also, are we planning a frag swap game at this meeting?
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macclellan
New member
I don't think we have a frag swap activity planned for this time around. Given the fact that we are going to hold the meeting at one of our sponsors' place of business, I'd prefer that we hold off until the Xmas meeting or the next when we are at an ETRC member's home to do another swap.
Devin, I wasn't being altogether serious with that statistic. Just trying to rile the gun nuts.
Two caveats to what you said though: 2006 being an all-time high for crime is irrelevant because population is going up, what's relevant is per capita crime, and that's been going down more or less steadily since the 1970s, and it's really hard to show any causal relationship for or against gun ownership given everything else going on. Also, while it is technically correct that guns aren't involved in every violent crime, the FBI page cited said that firearms were used in 67.1 percent of the Nation's murders, 42.6 percent of robberies, and 20.9 percent of aggravated assaults in 2009.
That said, the issue is far more complicated than "more guns = less crime." There are many ways to make a society safe; an armed and educated citizenry is one of them. For example, there are very few guns in Europe per capita, but their violent crime rates are much lower than in the U.S. On the flip side, Canada is filled with guns, but is quite tame compared to us in terms of crime. Don't get me wrong, guns are fun and I'm not opposed to individual ownership per se, and I don't pretend to know whether "that guy might have a gun" is going through the minds of criminals as they scope us out more now that five years ago, and I do know that I prefer not to live my life with the physical burden of carrying a gun around or the psychological burden of living in "code yellow".
Did anyone read the article on concealed carry in Harper's Magazine, "Happiness is a worn gun: My concealed weapon and me" by Dan Baum? Thoughtful article; I learned a lot from it.
Hehe.Actually, I think it has more to do with Memphis being in Tennessee.
Devin, I wasn't being altogether serious with that statistic. Just trying to rile the gun nuts.
Two caveats to what you said though: 2006 being an all-time high for crime is irrelevant because population is going up, what's relevant is per capita crime, and that's been going down more or less steadily since the 1970s, and it's really hard to show any causal relationship for or against gun ownership given everything else going on. Also, while it is technically correct that guns aren't involved in every violent crime, the FBI page cited said that firearms were used in 67.1 percent of the Nation's murders, 42.6 percent of robberies, and 20.9 percent of aggravated assaults in 2009.That said, the issue is far more complicated than "more guns = less crime." There are many ways to make a society safe; an armed and educated citizenry is one of them. For example, there are very few guns in Europe per capita, but their violent crime rates are much lower than in the U.S. On the flip side, Canada is filled with guns, but is quite tame compared to us in terms of crime. Don't get me wrong, guns are fun and I'm not opposed to individual ownership per se, and I don't pretend to know whether "that guy might have a gun" is going through the minds of criminals as they scope us out more now that five years ago, and I do know that I prefer not to live my life with the physical burden of carrying a gun around or the psychological burden of living in "code yellow".
Did anyone read the article on concealed carry in Harper's Magazine, "Happiness is a worn gun: My concealed weapon and me" by Dan Baum? Thoughtful article; I learned a lot from it.
DevinWolfe
New member
Devin, I wasn't being altogether serious with that statistic. Just trying to rile the gun nuts.
I figured it was at least partially something like that.
Point(s) well taken!
I couldn't agree more, but "more guns = less crime" feels so nice rolling of the tongue. Actually, many of those who are more pro-gun than myself don't even take the time or effort to fully understand the responsibility and true (political and physical) power with which we are charged. I see this MUCH more often that I would like. I would really like to see more in the way of keeping people informed, granted we should do that on our own, but as a whole we seem to be slipping.
In my *opinion* this is the only thing that makes sense regarding the steep drop in crime since the "Obama will ban guns" scare that emptied gun stores across the counrty.
I respect that completely and would never try to convince anyone who feels this way otherwise. Personally I feel that I gain more from being aware of my surroundings than by any tool (firearm) that I may be forced to use someday.
I have never heard of this but once I get home and have some time I will definitely look into it.
Honestly, if anyone wants to do a bit of shooting some time let me know, I am always looking for people to shoot with. I usually go to my parent's place in Strawberry Plains where we have set up a few targets in/on a tree line. One could shoot anywhere from 5 to 130 yards with a solid/soil backstop if they wanted.
*** MEETING STUFF:
macclellan said:I don't think we have a frag swap activity planned for this time around. Given the fact that we are going to hold the meeting at one of our sponsors' place of business, I'd prefer that we hold off until the Xmas meeting or the next when we are at an ETRC member's home to do another swap.
Hehe.
Very good point, I hadn't considered that it would be rude to do our own personal swap right in front of the business that makes a living by selling what we are trading. I definitely agree about having one at Christmas, I really enjoyed the last one.
I have ordered the parts for my ATO and have worked it out with Scott to help/build the ATO at the meeting. The total after shipping for my parts was less than $50 and I just need to get a small item or two (<$10). I already have a small Hydor Pico pump that I will be using to start with. I may pick up an Aqualifter if the Hydor doesn't fair too well @ 1' head.
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macclellan
New member
Great - glad to hear it was cheap and fast to get. Should be a good demo. I can personally recommend the Tom's Aqualifter over normal pumps for ATOs... it's ideal because, unlike a normal pump there is no possibility of siphoning (so no need for check valves which invariably fail), also, because it pumps so slowly, the Aqualifter won't cloud water or result in major 'accidents' as quickly like the almost instantaneously emptying your whole RO reservoir into your tank ruining the salinity and/or flooding the tank. HTH!
A similar flurry of gun purchases happened when Clinton was elected. I doubt that all or most of the gun sales were to first-time buyers either time. It's not that more of the citizenry is armed; its that some of the citizenry is more armed. Crime has been going down for nearly 40 years. Has there been a significant drop over the last 20 months that Obama has been in office? Also, if it's been going down since 2007 more so than before, that was largely during the Bush era, not as a result of the 2009 gun bonanza.
I agree completely about the awareness aspect. That (and my trusty diving knife on the ready) got me through some pretty violent places in the world (Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil) while travelling alone for months on end unscathed.
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DevinWolfe
New member
I will keep my eyes open for a deal on an Aqaulifter in case this Pico is too strong, my previous bilge pump setup clouded the heck out of my water, no mater where I put the outlet. I am hoping the 1' of head will be enough to keep the Pico at a really low flow, I think it is rated @ 18" max. I guess we will see though...
I haven't looked too much into it outside of a quick glance, but it seems to operate similar to a small peristaltic pump from what I can tell. I work with large peristaltic pumps all day and they are very loud, is there any issue with noise on an Aqualifter?
I was actually basing what I said off of data between 2008 and 2009 during the steepest drop in crime. For instance murder dropped 10.5% since 2004 and 8.2% of that drop occured betwen 2008 and 2009. This was during the time when everyone was afraid that Obama would pass a massive tax inflating the cost of importing firearms and purchasing ammunition.
Maybe people were just too concerned with how much ammunition would cost to use it for a murder? j/k of course.
macclellan
New member
It's shaped like a cheap air pump (and essentially works the same) but is much quieter - I bet the water is a natural noise dampener. You can't hear it unless your right head is by it.
Runner
Active member
I had a Aqualifter for a while on my ATO and it worked great for about 4 years when it was only pumping up and over like about 16". When I tried to use it to pump up 3', it blew out in about 2 weeks.
As for guns, I have never seen a period of time in my life like right around the Obama election when you couldn't buy ammo. It was at last 6 months before I could walk into the store and be able to buy 9mm ammo.
As for guns, I have never seen a period of time in my life like right around the Obama election when you couldn't buy ammo. It was at last 6 months before I could walk into the store and be able to buy 9mm ammo.
DevinWolfe
New member
I will not be able to bring me better half this time but I will be there for sure.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
shirley386
Member
Your right head? :twitch:
macclellan
New member
Typo aside, it should be pretty clear what I meant... placing your head right by the pump....
Runner
Active member
It appears we have a little contest brewing here...
DevinWolfe
New member
You guys should definitely have a competition, but I can only decide if you each make a pan for me to take home and enjoy at my leisure.
The parts from Aquahub have arrived; I will do any pre-fab stuff I can with the slosh gaurds and "mold-a-hold" so a final product can be shown at the meeting. Now I just need to get a gang box, switch, and socket.
The parts from Aquahub have arrived; I will do any pre-fab stuff I can with the slosh gaurds and "mold-a-hold" so a final product can be shown at the meeting. Now I just need to get a gang box, switch, and socket.
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macclellan
New member
Two-Days-Away Reminder Bump!
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