Nutrient level, phosphates and coral coloration

Ralistin

Premium Member
So many of us have such a variety of equipment and husbandry skills when it comes to our tank. It is very hard to talk about the three things listed in the subject in regards to how they effect your tank without giving great details on water quality, equipment used (Skimmer, lighting, etc.), husbandry, and acurate observations. I am hoping that given enough detail that I may be offered some sound advice on what I can do to improve the over all quality of the tank, in particular, coral coloration.

Equipment:

My tank is a standard 75 gallon four foot long tank. My lighting consists of 2 x 250w Iwasaki 6500k MH and four 110w VHO blue actinic bulbs. The MH are mounted about a foot above the water line and the VHO bulbs about 7-8 inches. I used a MR-1 Myreefcreation protein skimmer, a 30 gallon refugium with a new batch of cheato starting. I have about 20x turnover rate on my water.

Water quality:

I do not detect any ammonia, nitrate or nitrites. I cannot really detect any phosphates but believe the test kit is not very accurate. Calcium is at 420ppm and Alk is 8-11 DKH. Magnesium is normal. I use all Salifert test kits. This is all I ever test for. Salinity is 1.027

Husbandry:

I have been bad about water changes in the past. I would normally do a 30% once every couple to few months. Only very recently have I changed this practice. I have changed 40% last weekend and 30% two weekends previous. I would like to do a 40% each month. I feed my fish only 2 times a week with about a thumbnail size of mysis shrimp. I do not feed anything else period. I figure this would reduce my nutrient level. I rarely run my protein skimmer because I typically never get too much out of it. I either contribute this to low nutrients or a poor operating skimmer.

Observations:

Until the last two water changes I noticed that when you look length wise down the tank you can see a definite yellow coloration in the water. After the recent water changes and running carbon I could clearly see the difference, no pun intended, but the water was clear with no yellow color at all.

I can certainly add any other details if needed.

Left side of tank:



14842left.JPG




Right side:



14842right.JPG


Any advice is welcome. I am not unhappy with my tank but I do believe the colors could be better. Thanks!
 
This is similar to what i am experiencing. I have been struggling with sps color also and have also eleminated water parameters and lighting. I've tried to change one variable at a time (such as bulbs, photoperiod, flow, mg, phosphate, wc, stopping carbon, etc) but so far nothing has really changed.

We both have very low bioloads (i only see 3 fish in your tank) as I only have 5 fish in my 100gal. Most of the tanks that i have seen with stellar color have been loaded with fish. I didn't want to add a bunch of fish just yet so after exhausting many other avenues, I tried feeding my tank more. I used to feed everyday and spot feed lps a couple of times a week and thought that my nutrient level was anything but low. I don't know how to measure nutrient level besides algae growth - i have very minimal algae in my tank and clean the glass every two days.

Well i started feeding my tank 2-3 times a day with larger portions and included food for sps. I have noticed that my coral colors have been getting richer. Low nutrient level MIGHT be one of the causes of our washed out color.

I'm gonna try adding some fish slowly. It's odd because we struggle to keep such low nutrients but this might be too extreme. I think there is a middle point that is ideal. Just my take on it. I'd like to hear other takes on it too.
 
i think the key to feeding more is to not 'overfeed' or put in more food than is consumed. most of the set-ups you speak of with high bio=loads don't just throw tons of food in, they just feed a nutritional consistent diet that then produces alot of fish waste, which i believe feeds the corals quite well

i have no idea if this is the cause for your lack of coloration though......

1.027 is a little high
water changes are your friend
what is 'normal' for your mag level
dkh 8-11....a swinging alkalinity level is no good for corals
 
Well i started feeding my tank 2-3 times a day with larger portions and included food for sps. I have noticed that my coral colors have been getting richer. Low nutrient level MIGHT be one of the causes of our washed out color.

I think this is funny. Not ha-ha, laugh out loud funny, but more "how odd" funny. The other thread that I see today on the browning of corals says that that too MUCH nutrients equals brown corals.
 
It 's the Iwasaki 6500k MH those are always going to brown out SPS. Great for growth bad for color.

I just upgraded to 400W 20K XMs and of my corals responed positively. I've done DSB, BB, different skimmers, different additives nothing changed the coloration like the 20Ks did.
 
This is something to think about here?I check your profile,as for how many years you been doing this.I see you posted 7 years in the hobby.This happen tro me a few years ago.It could be the case "old tank syndrome".Yes this does happens,after years running like this.I see you have a "deep sand bed".Do you vaccum it at all.This does help.....To pull the unwanted stuff out.Some folks will even pull some old sand out,and put some new in it's place.Just be carefull when doing thi,a small section at a time.My tank like hit a brick wall,the color wasn't the same.And the corals just seem to grow,like before.Can't remember if you said you were using carbon.Another good choice.But you water changes do have to be more often.Especially with the sand bed.Your water should be cyrstal clear,when looking threw your tank.But this is something to look into.I hope it kinda helps you out.Just remember your sand bed can be a sewer trap.
 
Reefflections:

The sand bed was moved in November when I moved. I scooped it all out and into buckets so I know that got a good mixing. I have been in the hobby for seven years but my current tank is only 3.5 years old. I almost never run carbon. I have done so for about 2 weeks time in total this year so far. Thanks for your input!

Covey:

I agree they make things look more yellow but some of the corals and intensely colored. I always thought that 4 x 110w blue actinic bulbs made up for a bit of that yellow. I have 1040 watts of light on a 75 which I think is sort of high. 20k XMs, although I have no experience with them kinda reminds me of the black light with colored dye. It seems you have to play light tricks to see colors you want. Perhaps this would be a good route. I wasn't trying to be funny. Thanks!

Hal & Stryker:

I have heard both sides of this debate too. I am not sure but it seems the secret there is to feed just enough to where you can still pull out the extra nutrients that are left behind rather then starve or over feed things. I have always tended to under feed a practice I shall have to change.

E-A-G-L-E-S:

My salinity is more toward 1.026 right now and normally. I agree with you on the water changes. My Mag level is usually right around 1500ppm give or take 20 points. I am not sure about the Alk swing. I always thought if it stayed between 8-12 you were ok.

Thanks all for your advice. I would love to see more!
 
I've read [in an article, not a thread] that bristleworms are a big factor in breaking down fish and snail product so it is of a size to be used by the sps. I certainly have a lot of those. And my colors are pretty good.
Params:
alk: 8.3-9
cal: 400
mg. 1300
temp 80
sal: 1.025
mh 250 10000 Ushio, 2 actinics, light period 12 actinic, 10 mh
water changes 10% a week.
5 nanofish, lots of inverts, sponges, crocea. I feed cyclopeeze and phyto [pods for the mandarin], plus use Kent Coral Vite and Reef Essentials alternating weeks.
My color is peculiar on the a. yongei: deep, unreal green with yellow growth ends despite being high up under the mh; have an ac. valida that's got good purple; and what I think is a tenuis that is going from dull brown to a pale aqua. The stylophora is a brilliant rose-red. Haven't had such good luck with the bubble coral, but I can't find a low light spot big enough; not such good color with the lps'es in general, except an orange plate coral.

So I'm satisfied with some things, but am still puzzling out how to feed. I'm the other end of the colored stick, it seems: my color is intense but my growth is a little slower than I'd been told would happen.
 
Sk8r:

Thanks for the reply. I have heard of the bristleworm theory maybe once or twice. I am not sure how valid that is. Most seem to think you should either target feed corals in some way or simply feed the tank in general which will in turn feed your corals. I think I have decided to feed, normal amounts but a couple times a day. I will do this until I figure out a happy medium for my skimmer to pull out skimate.
 
Its something to consider and 20K are not for everyone but even 10K XM would help the color. There is alot of room between 6500K and 20000K if your not into blue.

If you want something in between:
10K XM
10K Reeflux
12K Reeflux

These are all still farely white but seem to show better color.
 
I also need a good recommendation on a vitamin suppliment for the food. I will try the blended mush of various foods (Shrimp, squid, clams, etc.) from a blender and add a vitamin suppliment to that. That seems to be the best bet when frozen in little cubes.
 
Covey, what is your take on Ushio 10k or the Iwasaki 14k? I was thinking about using those and keeping the four blue actinic. I do agree with you that a higher kelvin bulb might help. I do like the growth I get right now too. I have had more growth in the last 5 months then I did the previous year. That is another story though as I slacked on calcium and alkalinity there for awhile. What a response I got from dosing correctly again. ;)
 
Premium Aquatics seems to be pretty high on the Iwasaki 14K and I would doubt Iwasaki would make a bad bulb but they are brand new so I think you'll be hard pressed to find some tank shots.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...en=PROD&Product_Code=14K-175IW&Category_Code=

I have no personally experience with the Ushio 10K but I haven't heard anything bad about them. You might ask around or possible start one of those "Show me your _____ bulb tank shot" threads as they will always pop up a few pics.
 
Wow! Prices are expensive there. My bulb normally goes for 52-54 but is 70 there.

Covey, just to give you an idea here is my purple, what I call samonesis or however it is spelled, which is a nice color now I think. It isn't like I cannot get any color but perhaps a higher kelvin will help.



14842sam.JPG
 
If your sick of brown your gonna definately need to get rid of the sakis. They are great for growth, but awful for coloration. I would go with XM 10k's since your using 65k's now. You can probably take out two vho's with those bulbs. If your wanting to lower the temp and electric bill.
 
Hey there Ralistin,

Well I've had my current reef setup almost a year now and until the last couple months I just fed my low-bioload reef a few times on the weekends and thats it. My corals were looking a little pale. So I've heard several people on RC and the heavy bio-loads and they have great looking corals. So I started this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7417238#post7417238
"Adding more fish to low bio-load reef = better coloration?"

I've got some before and after pics so far. I can tell you that I have been more consistant in my water changes, doing about 10% a week. My coloration has continued to improve in almost all my corals. I should take some more pictures. I can't believe how much my orange digi has improved in color. Also I swear my corals are growing more lately.

I think there is something to this feeding more thing but I also think you should gradually work up to higher feedings so that your tank can adjust to breaking the food down and you wont overfeed potentially causing algae blooms or other problems.

I just have been feeding more for about 2 mos or so and I'm stickin with it thats for sure. I also added a couple more fish but I think its more food that is doing the trick.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
cwegescheide:

Great info! Thank you!

Have any updated pics? I would love to see them. I am feeding my fish right now. ;)
 
OK I added some new pics to my thread... :) The difference in my digi is incredible. Looked like it was on its way out before I started feeding more. Now its brilliant orange and polyps look great. I also added some before and after of my green birdsnest too.

Chris
 
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