NWIMAC website is up and running
- Thread starter bigevill1
- Start date
pescadero
In Memoriam
I was called a backstabber last week when I offered to provide exactly the same service:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1319652
I'm not trying to be inflammatory, or to start a fight. I would just like for someone to explain to me why when I offered to provide this exact item free of charge for the benefit of any club who wanted to use it, this was a bad thing to do. Now that someone else is providing a forum that uses the exact same software, its a good thing to do.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1319652
I'm not trying to be inflammatory, or to start a fight. I would just like for someone to explain to me why when I offered to provide this exact item free of charge for the benefit of any club who wanted to use it, this was a bad thing to do. Now that someone else is providing a forum that uses the exact same software, its a good thing to do.
bigevill1
Big and Evil
I checked your link over the last several days looking for the site pesc and it wasnt there. seaoflife and patboone7 stated from the very beggining that they had already begun working on a website. You created your seperate one inspite of them saying they were making one already. That is why they called you a backstabber. It is never right to call people names, and really we need to get over the events of last week and move forward. I requested info in wether or not thier website was up yet, becuase I am interested. I know others are too.
doubled50
iPhone Reviewer!
bigevill your exactly right. Let's not revisit, Pesc your information was very valuable wish you were on board with us because you seem to know alot, who knows you may still be or maybe once we get going you'll become more interested, our invitation is open to everyone even despite last weeks events there are no grudges on our side and we've moved past and grown. We had already paid for a host when you made your site, otherwise that could have been an option. You any good at graphic design? Could always use that. Anyway, I just got home, doubt the site will get worked on, but stay tuned.
AquaGrizzly
New member
I tried to register but never got an e-mail to confirm. Tried to log in nothing.
Fuppets
New member
Griz same thing here. I did check my junk box. Not there.
Griz are you on AOL? I once had trouble getting confermation e-mail from an online vendor when ordering from them. An e-mail to them stated that their "automatic" e-mails somehow didn't go through to AOL accounts. They didn't know why. He had no trouble e-mailing me and forwarded the same "automatic" e-mail to me that I never recieved with no problem.
Griz are you on AOL? I once had trouble getting confermation e-mail from an online vendor when ordering from them. An e-mail to them stated that their "automatic" e-mails somehow didn't go through to AOL accounts. They didn't know why. He had no trouble e-mailing me and forwarded the same "automatic" e-mail to me that I never recieved with no problem.
pescadero
In Memoriam
if you have a question, all you have to do is ask.
No, that's not quite accurate. I guess that there's some miscommunication then. It sounds like patboone, seaoflife, and bigevill interpret the generic term "website" to mean "forum." the word "web site" and the word "forum" actually mean two entirely different things. everyone knows this.
yes, seaoflife used the term "website" several times, but he never used the word "forum" in his posts. not once. looking back at the messages that were posted, nobody started to use the word "forum," other to complain that RC wasn't responding to our requests to have a forum created for a new club. in response to the frustration stemming from the lack of responses to the requests made of RC, I asked if a forum was needed and created a sample forum. then seaoflife flew off of the handle calling me a backstabber.
to be fair, i wasn't trying to seal his wind or to do something behind his back. he never used the word "forum" to describe his master plan. not once. he used the term website. in failing to use accurate terms to describe his ideas, there was no way for me to know what he was planning on doing. if i had known that he was trying to create a forum, i wouldn't have tried to do anything that would have been construed as stealing his idea. i was just trying to provide a free service to whatever club might be formed.
as a courtesy to everyone here, i shut down the computer that was hosting the test forum as soon as the backstabbing accusations started. i saw no reason to continue to burn my electricity if the only purpose in doing so would have been to create discord. that was never my intent.
so it seems that the discord that we had last week was due to a failure in communication. seaoflife didn't adequately convey that he wanted to put together a forum, and he got upset when someone else had a similar idea. as it turns out, he didn't have a unique idea. what we had was a simple case of great minds thinking alike, except for the tantrum. its easy enough to put that behind us.
i'm happy to hear that nobody will be bearing a grudge. i'm not bearing a grudge either, and i'm all for the spirit of cooperation. i'm still willing to honor my offer to host a club forum free of charge, but it seems that seaoflife would rather pay a commercial hosting service to provide the same functionality, so that he maintains sole ownership of the forum, rather than having it be hosted as a cooperative venture.
my question remains unanswered though -- why did seaoflife find it necessary to create a forum that's identical in every way to the one that i created? both boards are identical. they use the same software. the only difference is that one costs money and the other does not. i guess i'm really missing the point, as i fail to understand why paying for a a service is better than getting the same service for free. paying for the service requires you to collect money from people to subsidize it when you don't have to. paying for a service that could be given away for free makes absolutely no sense, unless the idea behind the forum is to create a club that costs money so that you have a reason to collect money from people. there's not anything wrong with doing something like that, as long as the nature of the enterprise is clearly disclosed. looking at the domain name registration of the NWIMAC.org site, it appears to be organized as a sole proprietorship.
the free of charge option is still available if anyone wants it.
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bigevill1
Big and Evil
Becuase they want to. If you do not want to be a part of thier website, or thier club you do not have to be. Thats why we have RC here where you can post in any forums you want without being a member of anybodys club or doing anything you do not want to. Seaoflife and patboone7 have made it clear that they are going to move forward with thier vision wether or not anybody here wants to join them. Isnt that enough for you pesc? That should really be the end of the story as far as you go but you keep on plugging away at them. If you do not agree with what they are doing then dont be a part of it. That is all there is to it. Right now we have two fledgling groups on this forum. the NWIMAC and the CRS. I would like to see those two groups become one and will bring that up saturday at Scott's house. If we dont become one group I will be happy to try to be a member of both.
Fuppets
New member
Not everyone knows the difference in a web site and a forum. To most people if it's on the net its a web site. I do believe that he said a web site so we could communicate with each other without outsiders getting involved. Pretty much meaning a forum right?
Also you keep saying free of charge but also said you were burning your electricity. Also was using your computer to host the site. So someone has to have a compute and has to leave it on for the forum to work? So someone has to pay the electric bill and maintain the computer right? You seem willing to host and act like you wouldn't charge any club money to do this. But what happens if there is a falling out or you decide to leave the hobby. All forum info could potentally be lost.
Their way may cost something, how much I don't know, but at least the access could go with the club if say seaoflife decides to leave the hobby. Someone else could potentially carry the torch. Right? Maybe I'm wrong. It's been know to happen. Just ask either ex-wife.
No flaming or picking on was intended by this post. Just trying to help.
Shawn
Also you keep saying free of charge but also said you were burning your electricity. Also was using your computer to host the site. So someone has to have a compute and has to leave it on for the forum to work? So someone has to pay the electric bill and maintain the computer right? You seem willing to host and act like you wouldn't charge any club money to do this. But what happens if there is a falling out or you decide to leave the hobby. All forum info could potentally be lost.
Their way may cost something, how much I don't know, but at least the access could go with the club if say seaoflife decides to leave the hobby. Someone else could potentially carry the torch. Right? Maybe I'm wrong. It's been know to happen. Just ask either ex-wife.
No flaming or picking on was intended by this post. Just trying to help.
Shawn
pescadero
In Memoriam
i don't have a problem with anyone forming any sort of club. i'd also like to see one club instead of two clubs, and i think that's a worthwhile goal that i would be happy to work toward. i'm even willing to provide (give away) a fully configured web server to a club that gets formed, as long as the club is not organized as a profit making venture to provide benefits that flow to one individual. my motivation is not to be an official in any sort of club or to have any measure of control over it. i just have knowledge and expertise that i would like to use to make a contribution to local reefkeeping, that's all.
more to follow. please gimme a few minutes to work on the next post.
pescadero
In Memoriam
shawn brings up a good point about the portability of data. what i can tell you shawn, is that the facility exists to export the data to move it from one forum hosting web site to another, so that the types of problems that you have thought about never have to happen. its possible, for example, for the data to be backed automatically every night to another computer in another location so that the data is never lost. the mirror image of the data could be kept at your house, or at one of the club officers' houses, or wherever it makes sense to keep it. you could even burn it to DVD once a week and put the copies in a safe deposit box if you wanted to. whatever the club wants to do. this prevents the club from losing data just because someone's house burns down or they leave the hobby, or someone goes off of the deep end and pulls the plug out of vindictiveness. i've seen it happen on other forums. by configuring the system properly in the beginning, you eliminate the potential problems.
on a related note, its even possible for the data to be imported/exported from one forum to another. if Reef Central were willing to give us the data files that comprise this forum, for example, it would be possible to load them onto another forum site. of if the club forum ever went belly-up, it would be possible to move the data to RC (if RC were willing to take it).
optimally, i think that a club's data should be backed up so that it is protected by being stored in multiple locations. that way there's no risk of any sort of adverse event leading to the loss of data. the club's elected officers should be the people who are responsible for holding the data, or they can choose who is responsible for holding the data. one person should NEVER control it, for precisely the reasons you mentioned. as you can tell, i've been down this road before. i've dealt with many, many forums that have come and gone and i've learned the lessons of how to prevent the problems that always seem to crop up.
WRT burning electricity, i have a virtual server installation on-site here that has already been used to host a number of forums. the computer is running and burning electricity to provide infrastructure support for a non-profit Linux project, regardless of whether or not the module that hosts the CRS demo web site is turned-on. adding the CRS demo site amounts to a few additional disk reads/writes, that's all. i don't know if any of you noticed it or not, but the CRS web site wasn't even set-up as a reefer's web site. it was cloned from a template that was used quite some time ago to demonstrate the forum software for a true non-profit charity that rescues dogs. if you look at the posts there, they all relate to a dog rescue group, and the posts are pretty old. regardless of whether a fish site gets hosted there, the computer is already running.
more to follow...
pescadero
In Memoriam
your recollection of the facts isn't accurate. by saying what you have said you have made a false accusation. this creates a problem where a problem doesn't need to exist.
i don't like to be falsely accused so i'd like to set the record straight. go back and read the old posts. the word "web site" was used in a very generic and nonspecific sense. the the term "forum" and the phrase "web site so we can communicate" was never used. never. no clear descriptions were ever made with respect to the actual content that would be provided. the term "web site" was only used in a generic way, and you are responding as if some generic ill-defined comment about having a club web site grants someone the exclusive right to everything that can possibly be created on the internet. dibs? i got over that kind of "i got here first" childishness when i was... dare i say it? a child.
i can't find any posts where seaoflife expressly defined the idea of creating a forum prior to the time that i created the CRS demo site. that means your accusation is dead wrong and unfair. the only reason i'm commenting about this is that your misstatements cast me in an unfavorable light.
In the big scheme of things, I don't care about any of this and i look forward to us all being friends. i just don't like to be falsely accused.
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bigevill1
Big and Evil
Two qoutes from seaoflife in the original thread on the CMAS forum that started this all:
"There are going to be dues simply for the hope of being able to; one keep a website with a chat forum going."
and
"I'm fronting all the money to get a website going."
first quote is on page two of this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1317304
second quote is on page three.
I will not be checking this particular thread anymore after this post
"There are going to be dues simply for the hope of being able to; one keep a website with a chat forum going."
and
"I'm fronting all the money to get a website going."
first quote is on page two of this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1317304
second quote is on page three.
I will not be checking this particular thread anymore after this post
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pescadero
In Memoriam
you are right. they did use the word "forum". it turns out that i was wrong about that. sorry.
as it turns out, the idea wasn't original. many people had the similar idea of creating a local forum. you had the idea in taking over the Indiana Coral Club, poo-tang had the idea of asking RC to create a forum for us, Seaoflife had the idea of creating a website, and I actually did the job of creating one while everyone else was talking about how nice it would be to have one.
I guess that I was wrong to do that because Seaflife labeled me as a backstabber when I was only trying to help. Now he's created a carbon copy of what I offered to give the club last week. For some reason it was a bad idea when I offered to do it for free, but now its a good idea when he's doing it and dues will be collected. That's a double standard if there ever was one. Throw money at the problem if you want to, but its totally unnecessary to do so. I guess some people feel like they're getting more when they have to pay for something than when they can get it for free.
Good luck with the new site!
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AquaGrizzly
New member
I have yahoo dsl shawn. So I don't know what's going on.
AquaGrizzly
New member
I'm trying. My wife will just have to get mad. That and my order to O hare is not coming until Mon.
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