OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef
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cnordstrom
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jnarowe, it's really easy to sex mollies, platies, and swordtails. Look at the anal fin (back bottom fin) of the fish. If you see a little tube, it's a male. If it's a rounded fin, it's a female. It's VERY obvious when you look, so if they all seem to be about the same, they probably ARE the same.
jnarowe
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well, I haven't been able to catch more than a glimpse but hopefully over time I will figure out what i have left.
Just got a package from MD with my Nano 6025. It's not in the same league with the Vortech flow-wise but I really like the way it can be positioned in any direction. It is a nice little PH.
No fish sticks today. The Torch is hanging in there and seems to be getting healthier. I am stumped. Sherman and I were talking about it today and how healthy it was and that it was growing well, and then all of a sudden it started to die off. I wish I could figure out why this happens with LPS in my tank.
Just got a package from MD with my Nano 6025. It's not in the same league with the Vortech flow-wise but I really like the way it can be positioned in any direction. It is a nice little PH.
No fish sticks today. The Torch is hanging in there and seems to be getting healthier. I am stumped. Sherman and I were talking about it today and how healthy it was and that it was growing well, and then all of a sudden it started to die off. I wish I could figure out why this happens with LPS in my tank.
jnarowe
New member
Just to clarify, those are the numbers from an old batch of OceanPure Pro I have been using for the last 6 months, not the current batch in distribution. I have not tested that yet. The real problem is that the non-Pro version of OceanPure currently in distribution is sadly low on numbers:
Ca: 300; Alk: 5.7 dKh, and Mg: 800 - 1500 depending on the tester. And I unfortunately have 1,800g worth of that.
Ca: 300; Alk: 5.7 dKh, and Mg: 800 - 1500 depending on the tester. And I unfortunately have 1,800g worth of that.
jnarowe
New member
So I just got the Deltec/Merck PO4 test and tested my tank water twice and I got a big fat zero. So that is not the problem with the LPS and can be ruled out.
Funny how that test is highly recommended by most experienced reef keepers and yet it was strange in that the powder used in the test is n a small bottle and you have to get it out with a tiny spoon. The test says to get a level micro-spoonful, yet it is very difficult to do so AND, the spoon does not have a level rim. It's curved for God's sake!
Anyway I am pleased that my phosphate fighting efforts since day one have paid off as I was never really sure about it since my other tests don't have the sensitivity of the Merck test.
Funny how that test is highly recommended by most experienced reef keepers and yet it was strange in that the powder used in the test is n a small bottle and you have to get it out with a tiny spoon. The test says to get a level micro-spoonful, yet it is very difficult to do so AND, the spoon does not have a level rim. It's curved for God's sake!
Anyway I am pleased that my phosphate fighting efforts since day one have paid off as I was never really sure about it since my other tests don't have the sensitivity of the Merck test.
jnarowe
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9010460#post9010460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
So what's your preference?Old stuff or the new stuff? I like the Ocean Pure numbers myself.
I really like the old OceanPure Pro numbers of course and since I have been using it, my Ca, alk, pH, Mg levels have all been very good and stable. Unfortunately, that batch is dead and gone! I didn't know I had been using Pro, and this time bought the regular as you can see from another post...I am screwed!
KingfishJohn
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Jonathan,
Actually a reading of absolute zero with that Phosphate kit is bad. You're looking for something 3 or 4 bubbles from the bottom or about .015 I believe.
Calcium most readily bonds to phosphate and requires the smallest amount of energy for a corals zooanthellae algae to break that bond. If phosphate is at a zero level, calcium bonds to other things requiring more energy exerted from the corals, and much slower growth. The point of that particular test kit is to allow you to differentiate from absolute zero, and almost zero.
John
Actually a reading of absolute zero with that Phosphate kit is bad. You're looking for something 3 or 4 bubbles from the bottom or about .015 I believe.
Calcium most readily bonds to phosphate and requires the smallest amount of energy for a corals zooanthellae algae to break that bond. If phosphate is at a zero level, calcium bonds to other things requiring more energy exerted from the corals, and much slower growth. The point of that particular test kit is to allow you to differentiate from absolute zero, and almost zero.
John
but I think at a fairly natural rate.KingfishJohn
New member
Are you using any phosphate binding media? What are you specifically feeding to the corals?
jnarowe
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I am using RowaPhos as the last stage of my multi-media reactor. I don't feed much to the corals although lately I have been trying to target feed some LPS to improve their health. I offer zooplankton occassionally too. The food I feed my fish/tank consists of all sorts of things ala Melev and there is plenty for the corals to eat in the system. I don't consider my system low nutrient by any means.
KingfishJohn
New member
First,
With rowaphos in a baggie, you can't really control its affect on your system. Using it in a reactor allows you to increase or decrease flow to the media and therefore the amount of phosphate in your system.
Try feeding your system with some specific coral foods. Rotifers, cyclops, DT's oyster eggs, etc... are all great foods. I'm of the school that you DO need to feed your corals and they can't get what they need from just fish poop.
Possibly just removing the rowa from the bag and putting it into a reactor could help. You're a very good DIY'er so you should be able to fashion a good reactor. Basically, look at the large Deltec reactors and use their design.
John
With rowaphos in a baggie, you can't really control its affect on your system. Using it in a reactor allows you to increase or decrease flow to the media and therefore the amount of phosphate in your system.
Try feeding your system with some specific coral foods. Rotifers, cyclops, DT's oyster eggs, etc... are all great foods. I'm of the school that you DO need to feed your corals and they can't get what they need from just fish poop.
Possibly just removing the rowa from the bag and putting it into a reactor could help. You're a very good DIY'er so you should be able to fashion a good reactor. Basically, look at the large Deltec reactors and use their design.
John
KingfishJohn
New member
Oops I misread multi media reactor as baggie. Could you elaborate on the reactor, how much rowa is in it, and what kind of flow you're putting through it.
In a commercial reactor, the rowa barely even moves.
In a commercial reactor, the rowa barely even moves.
jnarowe
New member
Flow comes in from the manifold, not overflow as it is labeled...that was a retard moment. 
This picture is old and doesn't show the baskets I have made for each section. Most of the flow is bled off into the sump after 6" of floss and 5lbs. of carbon. A small amount (trickle) is allowed to pass through to to the dual chamber Ca reactor. It has an Eheim recirc pump and flow is up in both Ca chambers. Then it spills into a chamber from the top and travels down under a baffle and up into the Rowa basket. That basket has perforated bottom and top, and floss on both ends inside. It is very gently fluidized and the effluent passes through the 3/8 black line and into a 25 micron sock.
Here's a pic of the Rowa basket:
I put around 1/2 qt. of Rowa in at a time, and the flow is very slow, like you would expect through a Ca reactor.
Cyclops is a regular ingredient in the food I feed the tank, plus I target feed in certain situations. I haven't tried the oyster eggs yet but I am planning on it.
I am not sure what you mean by this. Help what? If my readings are zero you think that they will come up if I change the way the Rowa is used? Do I really need to get them up? I was under the distinct impression from extensive research that the lowest ossible PO4 level attainable was the goal to meet.
I would theorize that even though the Merck test shows zero, that there is still PO4 in the system, especially when I look at my refugium macro. It goes through boom and bust stages, but on average I get healthy growth.
Any thoughts or recommendations?
This picture is old and doesn't show the baskets I have made for each section. Most of the flow is bled off into the sump after 6" of floss and 5lbs. of carbon. A small amount (trickle) is allowed to pass through to to the dual chamber Ca reactor. It has an Eheim recirc pump and flow is up in both Ca chambers. Then it spills into a chamber from the top and travels down under a baffle and up into the Rowa basket. That basket has perforated bottom and top, and floss on both ends inside. It is very gently fluidized and the effluent passes through the 3/8 black line and into a 25 micron sock.
Here's a pic of the Rowa basket:
I put around 1/2 qt. of Rowa in at a time, and the flow is very slow, like you would expect through a Ca reactor.
Cyclops is a regular ingredient in the food I feed the tank, plus I target feed in certain situations. I haven't tried the oyster eggs yet but I am planning on it.
I am not sure what you mean by this. Help what? If my readings are zero you think that they will come up if I change the way the Rowa is used? Do I really need to get them up? I was under the distinct impression from extensive research that the lowest ossible PO4 level attainable was the goal to meet.
I would theorize that even though the Merck test shows zero, that there is still PO4 in the system, especially when I look at my refugium macro. It goes through boom and bust stages, but on average I get healthy growth.
Any thoughts or recommendations?
KingfishJohn
New member
Jonathan,
You definitely do not want the lowest possible reading on the Merck test for phosphate. I'll try to explain the use of phosphate (to my best understanding) in a reef system after I address the other questions.
In a true "rowa reactor" a ballvalve is used and the media is fluidized. This allows the media to continually tumble, and not clump as often happens when using it passively. It also allows you to increase or decrease flow due to the phosphate demands in your system.
When phosphate is at a deficieny (absolute zero) calcium bonds to other ions (I'm POSITIVE phosphate does more than simply bond to calcium). From both Mike Paletta, Bruce Azzarito (old ROWAUSA rep), and Doug from Deltec, you are shooting for something over zero in phosphate. Stripping phosphate from your tank to absolute zero is actually bad for the inhabitants and might explain your random LPS death. Try removing the Rowa completely, then monitoring the phosphate level via your test kit. When it begins to increase beyond the .015 mark, add a small amount of rowa back into the basket. If it continues to increase, add more.
The reason I like to use different reactors for carbon, rowaphos, and calcium is that different flow rates are required for each. Rowa needs a small trickle, calcium needs a broken stream, and carbon needs to be tumbling.
You definitely do not want the lowest possible reading on the Merck test for phosphate. I'll try to explain the use of phosphate (to my best understanding) in a reef system after I address the other questions.
In a true "rowa reactor" a ballvalve is used and the media is fluidized. This allows the media to continually tumble, and not clump as often happens when using it passively. It also allows you to increase or decrease flow due to the phosphate demands in your system.
When phosphate is at a deficieny (absolute zero) calcium bonds to other ions (I'm POSITIVE phosphate does more than simply bond to calcium). From both Mike Paletta, Bruce Azzarito (old ROWAUSA rep), and Doug from Deltec, you are shooting for something over zero in phosphate. Stripping phosphate from your tank to absolute zero is actually bad for the inhabitants and might explain your random LPS death. Try removing the Rowa completely, then monitoring the phosphate level via your test kit. When it begins to increase beyond the .015 mark, add a small amount of rowa back into the basket. If it continues to increase, add more.
The reason I like to use different reactors for carbon, rowaphos, and calcium is that different flow rates are required for each. Rowa needs a small trickle, calcium needs a broken stream, and carbon needs to be tumbling.
KingfishJohn
New member
And your research about the lowest level of phosphate was right to an extent. Most phosphate test kits do not test phosphate to such a finite level as the Merck kit, and they also test inorganic phosphate. Your merck kit tests organic phosphate. You again do NOT want absolute zero.
John
John
KingfishJohn
New member
One more thing to consider is... are you rinsing the Rowaphos? The fastest way to kill any coral (IMO) is to accidently get phosphate remover on them.
jnarowe
New member
I do have a valve on the output of the Rowa and it is closer to a broken stream than a trickle. I do not have the carbon tumbling as I do not want carbon fines entering the display. That is why it is a downward flow chamber with heavy duty Eco floss.
I do rinse the Rowa before putting it in the chamber, and I have the effluent feeding through a fine micron sock as a safety measure. My LPS problems do not seem to be related to new Rowa batches as I was suspicious of this as well. The timing doesn't match up.
I will experiment with removing the Rowa media and see what happens. Thanks for your input!
I do rinse the Rowa before putting it in the chamber, and I have the effluent feeding through a fine micron sock as a safety measure. My LPS problems do not seem to be related to new Rowa batches as I was suspicious of this as well. The timing doesn't match up.
I will experiment with removing the Rowa media and see what happens. Thanks for your input!
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