OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef
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jnarowe
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Quick Update:
Last night I got a bit of a zap when I put my finger in the bypas flow from my Hammerhead. I am a bit troubled by this since I have 3 grounding probes in the system, 1 in the overflow, and 1 in each sump. Does anyone have any experience with these pumps generating stray current? Is that even possible, and if so, how would it be corrected?
The PLTA is on the move again and today I found it about 4 feet from its last position, and this time wrapped around an encrusting rugosa(or a cousin thereof). The problem is that I can't move the coral out of the way. Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this, or am I only able to watch it sting the crap out of this fabulous coral??
Last night I got a bit of a zap when I put my finger in the bypas flow from my Hammerhead. I am a bit troubled by this since I have 3 grounding probes in the system, 1 in the overflow, and 1 in each sump. Does anyone have any experience with these pumps generating stray current? Is that even possible, and if so, how would it be corrected?
The PLTA is on the move again and today I found it about 4 feet from its last position, and this time wrapped around an encrusting rugosa(or a cousin thereof). The problem is that I can't move the coral out of the way. Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this, or am I only able to watch it sting the crap out of this fabulous coral??
jnarowe
New member
And sorry for the late replies...for some reason I am not getting notified of posts.
2swift: That is a cool set up and I agree there is value in that, but for me I need a lot more power. True though it would drive my Vortechs for quite a while I am sure. Those have their own battery backup which also provides some computer control of the pumps, and a distinct advantage over just a plain UPS or inverter.
I now have a Honda portable generator and will start researching a whole house system when I get the chance. I think in the long run it will pay for itself in relation to reef keeping and wife keeping. :lol:
mrcrab: Don't forget that I have GBTAs that mind their manners and rarely move at all. They just get bigger and bigger. The PLTA is the first anemone I have had problems with, and Sherman has been telling me it was the same for him when he had one. I tell ya though, it is a sweet looking animal and I still hold out hope that it will settle down and behave. The one in Steve Weast's tank seems to mind its manners fairly well, so their is some hope left!
2swift: That is a cool set up and I agree there is value in that, but for me I need a lot more power. True though it would drive my Vortechs for quite a while I am sure. Those have their own battery backup which also provides some computer control of the pumps, and a distinct advantage over just a plain UPS or inverter.
I now have a Honda portable generator and will start researching a whole house system when I get the chance. I think in the long run it will pay for itself in relation to reef keeping and wife keeping. :lol:
mrcrab: Don't forget that I have GBTAs that mind their manners and rarely move at all. They just get bigger and bigger. The PLTA is the first anemone I have had problems with, and Sherman has been telling me it was the same for him when he had one. I tell ya though, it is a sweet looking animal and I still hold out hope that it will settle down and behave. The one in Steve Weast's tank seems to mind its manners fairly well, so their is some hope left!
Some are good citizens and some aren't (being relative to what you are mixing in the tank). I've seen Calfo discuss this issue many times and his answer was always take the anemone out and give him his own home. Make yourself a nice "little" cube tank for the anemone and clown or whatever. Could even tie in to existing system. OW it may very well continue to move around searching for flow, light or whatever and continue to destroy your corals.
I went through this as well, and now have a cube for anemones and softies. Soft corals tend to far better than SPS with anemones since they have heavy mucos coats. What was as bad as the stinging was when my LTA that was about 16 or 18 inches started spawning. Really stressed out all of my SPS. Had to do water changes, carbon (IDK if it helped) and took him out.
Best of luck.
I went through this as well, and now have a cube for anemones and softies. Soft corals tend to far better than SPS with anemones since they have heavy mucos coats. What was as bad as the stinging was when my LTA that was about 16 or 18 inches started spawning. Really stressed out all of my SPS. Had to do water changes, carbon (IDK if it helped) and took him out.
Best of luck.
jnarowe
New member
not so good day...
not so good day...
Well guys, Sherman came over today and pointed out that my beautiful Jade Torch is dying off. I didn't see it before because the tentacles of the good parts are so long and covering the dead heads. Looks like 3 dead heads and one dying. The rest of it looks great, and again I cannot figure out why I have such trouble with LPS.
I did some direct feeding of it tonight and spent quite a while battling the fish so that the torch could retain its meal. I have no idea if it really ate because I can't see its mouths from above. I took repeated strikes from the tangs, and especially from the sailfin I got from Sherman. That fish was ready to throw down!
Other LPS in the tank are having trouble too for the last couple of weeks. My water parameters are all good. I am doing regular water changes, and nothing negative shows in any tests. Some points to consider are stray electricity which continues to pop up once in a while, over top-off because the doser allowed a siphon, and a fairly large drop in alkalinity about 10 days ago.
Pinning the problem to any one thing may be futile though and I have to think that in the long run, it may just be too much light. Flow is fine as I typically place LPS in lower flow areas.
The PLTA continues to be a crank. Social life on the reef seems to be good although one of the chromis has been cut off from the group. This happens occassionally but seems to only last a week or two.
I have bit the bullet and ordered in a Litermeter II to take the place of the offending doser. I have also had a sudden problem with my RO/DI units and after discussion with Steve Weast, have decided to get all new membranes. He changes his out every 9 months and that is about as long as mine have been in use. I think they just may be fouled. I would guess that I got about 6000g through it so maybe that's not too bad.
Steve also turned me on to theMighty Magnets scratch removal kit. I will use it and post the results as soon as I can. I figured when I asked him about internal scratches he would just tell me tough luck, but he said even though he is very careful, he still de-scratches a couple times per year with this kit. What a relief!
not so good day...
Well guys, Sherman came over today and pointed out that my beautiful Jade Torch is dying off. I didn't see it before because the tentacles of the good parts are so long and covering the dead heads. Looks like 3 dead heads and one dying. The rest of it looks great, and again I cannot figure out why I have such trouble with LPS.
I did some direct feeding of it tonight and spent quite a while battling the fish so that the torch could retain its meal. I have no idea if it really ate because I can't see its mouths from above. I took repeated strikes from the tangs, and especially from the sailfin I got from Sherman. That fish was ready to throw down!
Other LPS in the tank are having trouble too for the last couple of weeks. My water parameters are all good. I am doing regular water changes, and nothing negative shows in any tests. Some points to consider are stray electricity which continues to pop up once in a while, over top-off because the doser allowed a siphon, and a fairly large drop in alkalinity about 10 days ago.
Pinning the problem to any one thing may be futile though and I have to think that in the long run, it may just be too much light. Flow is fine as I typically place LPS in lower flow areas.
The PLTA continues to be a crank. Social life on the reef seems to be good although one of the chromis has been cut off from the group. This happens occassionally but seems to only last a week or two.
I have bit the bullet and ordered in a Litermeter II to take the place of the offending doser. I have also had a sudden problem with my RO/DI units and after discussion with Steve Weast, have decided to get all new membranes. He changes his out every 9 months and that is about as long as mine have been in use. I think they just may be fouled. I would guess that I got about 6000g through it so maybe that's not too bad.
Steve also turned me on to theMighty Magnets scratch removal kit. I will use it and post the results as soon as I can. I figured when I asked him about internal scratches he would just tell me tough luck, but he said even though he is very careful, he still de-scratches a couple times per year with this kit. What a relief!
jnarowe
New member
I hear ya on that. This has happened repeatedly though that an LPS will start to die off. Then it will stabilize for a while, and then maybe a week or two later drop dead. I do notice that the first heads to go are the ones oriented up, and that's why I brought up the light issue.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I buy aluminum oxide wet sandpaper from a big box auto supply store. I start with 1000 grit, then go to 1200, then 1500, and finish with 2000. Aluminum oxide is the active ingredient in the non-iron-based phosphate removers, so it can't be that detrimental if a few grains fall off in the water. You may have to start with 800 if you have a chip, rather than a scratch.
Always work in one direction (left & right), then switch to a perpendicular direction (up & down). Circular motion will cause more scratches.
Use each grade of sandpaper, as you work the scratches out. Don't skip a step, or it will only take longer.
Mark the outside glass where the scratches are, with masking tape. This will assure you don't lose your spot or score an area that doesn't need it. There's an optical illusion when you look at the spot you're working on at an angle, with your hand inside the tank. It's easy to go off track, and waste time and muscles.
I haven't had to remove any scratches that were out of reach yet, so I have no experience with attaching them to magnets, but aquarium magnets are covered in velcro, and many brands of sandpaper use velcro as well. You could also use two sided tape or affix your own velcro to the paper.
The magnet may not press hard enough to be as good as a doing it by hand. If your magnet is strong enough to get the job done. it may be too hard to move back and forth easily. It may also cause uneven pressure and ware. I hold it by hand just like the auto body guys do. Sanding blocks are less efficient with small scratches.
You may find it easier to drain part of the tank, if that's an option.
Many scratch removal kits are overpriced, and don't go very far, as they give you a tiny piece of sandpaper to work with. You're also paying for the liquid scratch remover cloth that you don't use on internal (wet) scratches. Conversely, you get three or four 3"x6" sheets of aluminum oxide sandpaper for a couple of bucks if you use the ones sold for auto-body work (paint sanding).
I use a buffing wheel, on a drill, with jewelers ruby paste (buffing compound) for external scratches. It's much faster and less labor intensive. You can purchase the wheel, drill adapter, and stick of buffing compound for about $50.00, and it will last for years.
You can buy or rent a flexible drill extension from a tool store, so you can work underwater, but it may not be worth the trouble, and I don't know how easy they are to operate. The extensions aren't stainless steel, so you have wrap them in duct tape or plastic to protect the tool and the water.
The liquid scratch removers are only good for external (dry) micro-scratches. The kind of scratches you can't see when you're over 40. In most cases, minimizing the damage is good enough.
Acrylic supply houses will have all the stuff you need in stock. If you're lucky, one of the guys that works there will give you a quick lesson.
I find that cleaning magnets, particularly Magnafloats, scratch the outside of the acrylic. You should use a micro-fiber cloth or a sock around the outer magnet. A sock or bag works best as it stays in place. Throw the sock in the laundry every week or so to remove salt and other abrasives.
Always work in one direction (left & right), then switch to a perpendicular direction (up & down). Circular motion will cause more scratches.
Use each grade of sandpaper, as you work the scratches out. Don't skip a step, or it will only take longer.
Mark the outside glass where the scratches are, with masking tape. This will assure you don't lose your spot or score an area that doesn't need it. There's an optical illusion when you look at the spot you're working on at an angle, with your hand inside the tank. It's easy to go off track, and waste time and muscles.
I haven't had to remove any scratches that were out of reach yet, so I have no experience with attaching them to magnets, but aquarium magnets are covered in velcro, and many brands of sandpaper use velcro as well. You could also use two sided tape or affix your own velcro to the paper.
The magnet may not press hard enough to be as good as a doing it by hand. If your magnet is strong enough to get the job done. it may be too hard to move back and forth easily. It may also cause uneven pressure and ware. I hold it by hand just like the auto body guys do. Sanding blocks are less efficient with small scratches.
You may find it easier to drain part of the tank, if that's an option.
Many scratch removal kits are overpriced, and don't go very far, as they give you a tiny piece of sandpaper to work with. You're also paying for the liquid scratch remover cloth that you don't use on internal (wet) scratches. Conversely, you get three or four 3"x6" sheets of aluminum oxide sandpaper for a couple of bucks if you use the ones sold for auto-body work (paint sanding).
I use a buffing wheel, on a drill, with jewelers ruby paste (buffing compound) for external scratches. It's much faster and less labor intensive. You can purchase the wheel, drill adapter, and stick of buffing compound for about $50.00, and it will last for years.
You can buy or rent a flexible drill extension from a tool store, so you can work underwater, but it may not be worth the trouble, and I don't know how easy they are to operate. The extensions aren't stainless steel, so you have wrap them in duct tape or plastic to protect the tool and the water.
The liquid scratch removers are only good for external (dry) micro-scratches. The kind of scratches you can't see when you're over 40. In most cases, minimizing the damage is good enough.
Acrylic supply houses will have all the stuff you need in stock. If you're lucky, one of the guys that works there will give you a quick lesson.
I find that cleaning magnets, particularly Magnafloats, scratch the outside of the acrylic. You should use a micro-fiber cloth or a sock around the outer magnet. A sock or bag works best as it stays in place. Throw the sock in the laundry every week or so to remove salt and other abrasives.
jnarowe
New member
All good advice Mr. Wilson. There are companies that do this professionally and use pnuematic polishers while diving the tank! I own a store that sells marine products so I can get fairly fine sandpaper through it as well, but not 2000 and finer. I have found that buying most of this stuff from Micro-mesh is not too bad price-wise, but that the coarser grits are cheaper elsewhere of course.
I bought my tank used (very used) so I spent a few days completely re-doing the viewing pane inside and out. It was a PITA but worked out very well. I marked of the pane with a grid using wax pencil. Then I used a timer to do each section with each grit for the same amount of time. The issue there is that the overall clarity can be distorted if you polish one area more than another.
For mechanical advantage I used a Hitachi grinder dialed down with a rheostat (sp?). That gave me a nice even finish.
Of course, most of my scratches are down low near the sand bed and that means 30 - 35" deep, and not easily reached by hand. I am excited to try it with a magnet and will report back on how it goes. The Tiger Shark magnets I have are fairly strong, but adding a sock or two as you suggest could solve that problem.
I bought my tank used (very used) so I spent a few days completely re-doing the viewing pane inside and out. It was a PITA but worked out very well. I marked of the pane with a grid using wax pencil. Then I used a timer to do each section with each grit for the same amount of time. The issue there is that the overall clarity can be distorted if you polish one area more than another.
For mechanical advantage I used a Hitachi grinder dialed down with a rheostat (sp?). That gave me a nice even finish.
Of course, most of my scratches are down low near the sand bed and that means 30 - 35" deep, and not easily reached by hand. I am excited to try it with a magnet and will report back on how it goes. The Tiger Shark magnets I have are fairly strong, but adding a sock or two as you suggest could solve that problem.
jnarowe
New member
well, got back from a trip to Seattle to get salt and stuff. Sherman went along. I got 5 danios for my FW Planted tank, a pincushion for my overflow, 9 peppermint shrimp, 2 male and 6 females mollies for my SW fuge. I will be using them to bear live food for the display.
The torch is on its last legs and I am really bummed. When we got back, more heads were dying off. The neon orange fungia I have looked great, and about 2 hours later it is deflated and discolored. I think I am going to lose that too. More than 50% of my LPS are struggling, yet my fox coral, hammer, and frogspawn all look fine.
Still no idea why the LPS is suffering. I haven't dosed anything or done anything to the system that I think would cause a problem. The lesson here is that I am just not good at keeping LPS. All my SPS look great...????
The torch is on its last legs and I am really bummed. When we got back, more heads were dying off. The neon orange fungia I have looked great, and about 2 hours later it is deflated and discolored. I think I am going to lose that too. More than 50% of my LPS are struggling, yet my fox coral, hammer, and frogspawn all look fine.
Still no idea why the LPS is suffering. I haven't dosed anything or done anything to the system that I think would cause a problem. The lesson here is that I am just not good at keeping LPS. All my SPS look great...????
Bax
Premium Member
Sorry to hear about your troubles with LPS.
Is it like a brown jelly infection? My frog spawn had this very son after I got it. It was one of my first corals. I cut the infected head off and dipped the viable part in Tech-D. Three years later and the frog spawn is still with us. Maybe the could all use a dip in Lugols or a similar medication.
Hope it works out.
What kind of pincushion did you you get for your overflow? An urchin? Will it stay there? Mine gets into the most amazing spaces considering it is made of 4" spines.
Is it like a brown jelly infection? My frog spawn had this very son after I got it. It was one of my first corals. I cut the infected head off and dipped the viable part in Tech-D. Three years later and the frog spawn is still with us. Maybe the could all use a dip in Lugols or a similar medication.
Hope it works out.
What kind of pincushion did you you get for your overflow? An urchin? Will it stay there? Mine gets into the most amazing spaces considering it is made of 4" spines.
jnarowe
New member
Don't see any brown jelly on any of the suffering LPS. I too have used Tech-D with limited success and lugol's with moderate success on frogspawn. I also don't see any other animals harrassing any of the LPS, but that damn sailfin is a sneaky MF, so it could be him.
I don't really know what kind of pincushion it is and it's spines are very short at less than 1". It is multi-colored and I am hoping he doesn't fall out of the overflow! If he does, I hope he bounces off the catwalk and into the sump. :lol:
I don't really know what kind of pincushion it is and it's spines are very short at less than 1". It is multi-colored and I am hoping he doesn't fall out of the overflow! If he does, I hope he bounces off the catwalk and into the sump. :lol:
jnarowe
New member
Pincushion is fine even though Bax tried to voodoo me! 
I pulled the Jade Torch out and it is really in bad shape. Essentially there is just one viable head left on it. I dipped it in Tech-D and Lugol's, then FW rinsed it, and dipped it again. I got most of the dead tissue off and tried to clean up the skeleton as best I could. Then I placed it back into the display in a spot that I can more easily monitor it and keep it clean.
I did find something that I have found on other terminal LPS before. It is reminiscent of a cerith egg mass in that it is a very tight squiggly white string. Hard to describe I guess and there is no way I can take a pic, but I do note the appearance of whatever it is on most of my dying LPS.
Mollies are fine but very skittish. I have tried to feed them but still have not seen them take any food. They look healthy and alert.
Reef in general looks very good except for the LPS. Skimmer is working great. I have another dead Vortech driver which is one that Eco-Tech asked me to experiment with on a Neptune DC8 with 5 minute intervals. It worked great for a long time and then the odds caught up with it.
As far as I can tell from what is happening with the Vortech pumps, they just cannot be turned on and off without some small risk of frying the driver. Without any electrical engineering backround, I can only conclude that the driver needs more robust protection for its circuitry, and I am sure the new ones will have that issue resolved.
Eco-Tech is now telling customers to only run them on a 20 min. cycle or more, but I think that is just a stop-gap procedure. I am a bit bummed that all the information I got prior to buying these led me to believe they would work fine on a controller, but I am still a fan of the concept. As it turns out, the controller Eco-Tech is developing doesn't actually turn them on and off, but rather ramps the RPM up and down.
I have to wonder if this might be a marketing ploy in the sense that not being able to run their pumps on another controller means that the customer has no choice but to buy their proprietary controller. I guess it doesn't really matter since my system is built and I am financially committed to the Vortech line! I also have a motor that is making a chirping noise, and I don't think I can ignore it for very long. It just happens occassionally but it can't be a good thing.
Well, Eco-Tech is replacing the driver and I am glad they are sticking to good customer service, otherwise, I would be totally bent. Hopefully '07 will bring more improvements to the line and I will be able to stop worrying about them.
I pulled the Jade Torch out and it is really in bad shape. Essentially there is just one viable head left on it. I dipped it in Tech-D and Lugol's, then FW rinsed it, and dipped it again. I got most of the dead tissue off and tried to clean up the skeleton as best I could. Then I placed it back into the display in a spot that I can more easily monitor it and keep it clean.
I did find something that I have found on other terminal LPS before. It is reminiscent of a cerith egg mass in that it is a very tight squiggly white string. Hard to describe I guess and there is no way I can take a pic, but I do note the appearance of whatever it is on most of my dying LPS.
Mollies are fine but very skittish. I have tried to feed them but still have not seen them take any food. They look healthy and alert.
Reef in general looks very good except for the LPS. Skimmer is working great. I have another dead Vortech driver which is one that Eco-Tech asked me to experiment with on a Neptune DC8 with 5 minute intervals. It worked great for a long time and then the odds caught up with it.
As far as I can tell from what is happening with the Vortech pumps, they just cannot be turned on and off without some small risk of frying the driver. Without any electrical engineering backround, I can only conclude that the driver needs more robust protection for its circuitry, and I am sure the new ones will have that issue resolved.
Eco-Tech is now telling customers to only run them on a 20 min. cycle or more, but I think that is just a stop-gap procedure. I am a bit bummed that all the information I got prior to buying these led me to believe they would work fine on a controller, but I am still a fan of the concept. As it turns out, the controller Eco-Tech is developing doesn't actually turn them on and off, but rather ramps the RPM up and down.
I have to wonder if this might be a marketing ploy in the sense that not being able to run their pumps on another controller means that the customer has no choice but to buy their proprietary controller. I guess it doesn't really matter since my system is built and I am financially committed to the Vortech line! I also have a motor that is making a chirping noise, and I don't think I can ignore it for very long. It just happens occassionally but it can't be a good thing.
Well, Eco-Tech is replacing the driver and I am glad they are sticking to good customer service, otherwise, I would be totally bent. Hopefully '07 will bring more improvements to the line and I will be able to stop worrying about them.
jnarowe
New member
I tried to get them together but I don't think it worked out. I believe they talked at MACNA though. I don't think it is the Neptune system at all. All my system does is turn it on and off. And Neptune controllers are NOT the only ones having issues with the Vortech.
From what Eco-Tech has said, it is some sort of a "known" issue involving the code getting corrupted in the driver. Just like when PCs are not properly shut down or there is an electrical outage, surge etc. these drivers suffer some kind of damage when turned on and off, but it is a game of probabilities. In other words, it only happens in one out of every X cycles, whatever X may be.
To me, working with Neptune and other high-end controllers would be a good idea just for product placement, but, that doesn't take into account long-term product penetration. So for a customer like me who needs these, they can get more penetration by selling me "integrated" battery backup units and a wireless controller. I am not even going to state what the total line will cost as my wife or parents might be reading this thread!
Bax: I am just trying the mollies because Sherman was with me when I went to get supplies and he made the suggestion. Honestly I thought he was pulling my leg, but then an employee went up to a molly tank and dumped in a bunch of salt. We'll see what happens but I don't know how closely I will be able to monitor them. There is a lot of cover in the fuge and I may not even know if babies are being produced.
Vortech is decisively raising the bar on Tunze. While Tunze is a good quality product, they have their issues too. The advantage that Vortech offers over the Tunze is no wires in the tank and much less heat transfer. I must admit that after this last driver failure, I did order in a Nano Stream just to see how well they are built and work. My fuge is a Rubbermaid so the Vortech won't work on the rounded end. Right now I have a cheap powerhead in there but I think I need more flow, and I could also use the Nano for my QT tank.
I never really considered Tunze for my display tank because the Vortechs were already being tested and I would have a hard time dealing with the Tunze from an asthetic angle, as well as the heat transfer and wire issues. The big tank guys I consulted with all told me to go with closed loops but I really felt that a more electrically efficient system would be beneficial in the long term. As it turns out, I probably should have listened to them, but to run my system with proper flow, that would mean somehwere around an additional 1,600W for flow. However, a closed loop would be less expensive to implement.
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