Orchid Dottyback Compatibility (in particular with Flasher Wrasses)

[Dria]

Hello!

So, I caved and bought an orchid dottyback even though it impacted my stocking choices somewhat. I'm a sucker for purple, and this was the purplest fish around. I don't mind tailoring my tank around this fish, so I'm trying to figure out what has to change on my list.

I'm wondering about a particular piece of information I've seen a few places, including in some old threads on here, that you can't have one of these with any of the Flasher Wrasses. What I can't figure out is why. It seems to me they are not conspecific, or of the same shape/size. They also don't occupy the same niche in the tank (dottyback being more of a rock dweller and wrasses being more of a free-swimmer).

I would still really like to have a flasher wrasse. If it's going to be a real problem I obviously don't want to do it, but I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't be able to co-exist. Does anyone know of a confirmed case where those two fish don't get along or is it a more general word of warning because dottybacks can be pains?

 

[ThRoewer]

I don't have experience with flasher wrasses, but a lot with dottybacks, especially P. fridmani. As single fish they may get agressive against other species, but I found that when you keep them in pairs or better even groups, they are too busy with themselves to bother other fish much. I just put 4 orchids together and they not only get along well, but also often swim together in a group.

The issue with wrasses could be that they may get perceived as egg robbers, which may cause some aggression in a smaller tank. But as you say, they shouldn't interfere too much with flashers since they are more freewater fish.

I would like to add a pair or a group of McCoskers, but so far I wasn't able to find females.

 

[Dria]

I don't have experience with flasher wrasses, but a lot with dottybacks, especially P. fridmani. As single fish they may get agressive against other species, but I found that when you keep them in pairs or better even groups, they are too busy with themselves to bother other fish much. I just put 4 orchids together and they not only get along well, but also often swim together in a group.

The issue with wrasses could be that they may get perceived as egg robbers, which may cause some aggression in a smaller tank. But as you say, they shouldn't interfere too much with flashers since they are more freewater fish.

I would like to add a pair or a group of McCoskers, but so far I wasn't able to find females.

Interesting! I definitely hadn't read that was an option. I would actually like to have a few of them. They are such pretty fish! Did you add them all at once or one at a time and were they all the same size? This one I have is pretty small. I'll look up sexing them tomorrow and figure out if I have a male or female.

 

[Deinonych]

I would like to add a pair or a group of McCoskers, but so far I wasn't able to find females.

Females are rarely collected, and are highly likely to turn male in captivity. The "rule of thumb" with fairy and flasher wrasses is to keep males of different species to diffuse aggression and maintain coloration.

 

[ThRoewer]

Interesting! I definitely hadn't read that was an option. I would actually like to have a few of them. They are such pretty fish! Did you add them all at once or one at a time and were they all the same size? This one I have is pretty small. I'll look up sexing them tomorrow and figure out if I have a male or female.

No need to sex them - they turn either way. Ideally you start a group of different sizes. If possible get one large that is clearly male.

I started with a larger ORA specimen and added an ORA female about a month later when the first was in ich treatment with my first percula pair. Unfortunately the male/dominant was of equal size than the female I added and so she wouldn't accept him at first. For the first two weeks in QT they were beating each other silly - that's kind of normal if the roles are not clear or by all sides accepted, or the dominant not yet a male. I just went through the same with 2 neon dottybacks (they are the base of my next group)

When you have a core pair you can add more small ones. Ideally you introduce all to their final home in short order.
I had originally planned to make a second pair but then decided otherwise. The result surprised me as well. The pair alone was always a bit squabbling and I expected somewhat the same of the group. To my big surprise they got much better along in a group than as pair.

I think this is how you actually need to keep dottybacks so that they not become the terror of the tank. I plan to test this theory with the neon dottybacks in my 42 gallon tank.

Females are rarely collected, and are highly likely to turn male in captivity. The "rule of thumb" with fairy and flasher wrasses is to keep males of different species to diffuse aggression and maintain coloration.

If I can't keep them as pairs or harem group they are off the list. I have no interest in single males.

Will females always turn male - is it time/development controlled, or socially controlled?

 

[Dria]

No need to sex them - they turn either way. Ideally you start a group of different sizes. If possible get one large that is clearly male.

I started with a larger ORA specimen and added an ORA female about a month later when the first was in ich treatment with my first percula pair. Unfortunately the male/dominant was of equal size than the female I added and so she wouldn't accept him at first. For the first two weeks in QT they were beating each other silly - that's kind of normal if the roles are not clear or by all sides accepted, or the dominant not yet a male. I just went through the same with 2 neon dottybacks (they are the base of my next group)

When you have a core pair you can add more small ones. Ideally you introduce all to their final home in short order.
I had originally planned to make a second pair but then decided otherwise. The result surprised me as well. The pair alone was always a bit squabbling and I expected somewhat the same of the group. To my big surprise they got much better along in a group than as pair.

I think this is how you actually need to keep dottybacks so that they not become the terror of the tank. I plan to test this theory with the neon dottybacks in my 42 gallon tank.

Great information! Thanks so much. I think I will keep an eye out for a larger one and in the mean time keep an eye on the aggression of the lone one. Right now I've only got pajama cardinals in there so there shouldn't be any problems. I'm not sure I could do more than two, my tank is pretty small.

 

[Deinonych]

If I can't keep them as pairs or harem group they are off the list. I have no interest in single males.

Will females always turn male - is it time/development controlled, or socially controlled?

They won't always turn male, but the likelihood is extremely high. It's a socially controlled mechanism.

 

[ThRoewer]

They won't always turn male, but the likelihood is extremely high. It's a socially controlled mechanism.

If it is socially controlled they shouldn't turn if you have one male and 2 to 3 females.

 

[evolved]

If it is socially controlled they shouldn't turn if you have one male and 2 to 3 females.

Unfortunately, socially controlled in nature doesn't exactly replicate the same in aquaria.

 

[ThRoewer]

Unfortunately, socially controlled in nature doesn't exactly replicate the same in aquaria.

What would be the difference with flasher wrasses over sixlines for example? I had those as a pair for quite some time.

 

[d-man]

I have had a flame wrasse female that has yet to turn after 3 yrs. despite another female in with it and 15-20 other wrasses.
This b*tch is very stubborn....yep, definitely a female(jk)

 

[Deinonych]

What would be the difference with flasher wrasses over sixlines for example? I had those as a pair for quite some time.

Pseudocheilinus sp. wrasses are primarily solitary (and cryptic) in the wild, whereas Paracheilinus sp. wrasses form sizeable aggregations. There is usually one TP male that "rules" the aggregation, although there may be other IP or sub-males that participate in spawning.

 

[Dria]

Okay! I did end up getting a Royal Flasher. He's much bigger than the dotty about twice the size. I've seen no issues between them so far and will try to update this every once in a while for people who might have the same question later. My orchid dottyback is captive bred and that may make a difference in her temperament. She's very relaxed unless you try to get in the shell she's claimed as hers. And even then she only chases far enough to get out of her space and isn't aggressive about it.