Ordering Online - What to Expect??

[snorvich]

A quick glance shows that BZ doesn't give a guarantee on those butterflies that, IMO, they shouldn't be selling anyway

Exactly. Still I would always prefer to deal with a vendor who guarantees everything and gives a refund when things go south.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I have always had good luck with fish from the Live Aquaria California facility. Simply put, Live Aquaria does not ship out "sub-par" fish.

~Michael

I agree completely. Almost every fish I've kept since F&S started (bought) LA has come from them. That's a lot of fish, I had to start over after Katrina. I have never received a fish from LA that I wouldn't have picked out myself. I think LA and F&S are the best company, in any business that I've ever dealt with. They will do anything to make a customer happy.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

One other issue is how many fish you order at one time (no one to share an order). In some cases, ordering two fish leaves you under the free shipping threshold, but you can get a third fish at little additional cost because it gets you to free shipping. Should you order the third fish?

Is it realistic to quarantine 3 compatible fish (say butterflies) at one time? I have a 37 gallon QT (a tall 29 - 4" taller) that has had fish in it for 5+ weeks. Started with 3 lbs live rock and an air pump/sponge filter with a bag of ceramic cylinder biomedia and 2 airstones. I took the rock out when medicating (Cupramine and PraziPro) but expect there is a pretty good bio filter on the sponge and bio cylinders by now and I kept one fish in the QT to maintain the bio filter. 30% water changes twice a week.

 

[cougaran]

I'm running 3 in a 29 Qt right now..If i had more space as i have extra tanks i would prefer to keep each fish in quarantine in a tank by itself, so as not to spread any disease..But I'm more limited by space than anything else.. I like to use the ammonia badge that hangs on the tank from seachem to keep me alerted to any ammonia level build ups that the filter isnt keeping up with... I've used the sponge setup, but find myself going back to my old whisper HOB filters. I use a double one in my 90 and when I want to set up a QT I can take one of the used bags off of that filter..I take some tank water in a pail and swirl/clean it for awhile to get the crud off.. I then add it to the new filter and now I have more than enough bacteria for the QT tank. If your going to add cupramine or any other chemicals then you have to remove the carbon from the bag.

 

[geaux xman]

butterfly and angels are really susceptible to flukes. i would certainly do 2 treatments of prazipro. heck, i do 2 on every fish i get. its too easy to not do.

 

[SDguy]

I see no problem with three fish in that size QT. I routinely have done two in a 15g QT.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I see no problem with three fish in that size QT.

Me either.
Here's a copy of an easy to handle QT/HT cycling.

"In regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter"

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I wonder whether LA and BZ guarantees are invalidated by using Cupramine in quarantine.

 

[geaux xman]

I've had some fish credited by LA before and they didnt even ask. The pyramid butterflyfish(2) were $80ea too.

I've found them really sympathetic...."oh we're so sorryyyy"

Michael from NYaquatics stands by his 14day live policy too. He credited me each time immediately.

 

[geaux xman]

if you do cupramine butterflyfish, dose it very slowly(over a few days) and I wouldnt exceed .30ppm. Do not dose .25ppm all on the first day.

Just get your QT tank ready. I wouldnt hesitate one bit ordering from LA, Bluezoo, and NyAquatics. I've purchased from all three and have been very satisfied each and every time.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I wonder whether LA and BZ guarantees are invalidated by using Cupramine in quarantine.

I'm not sure about BZ or NYA. But certainly not at LA. I know one of their staff even recommends it---if you feel capable of doing it. If a fish showed a parasite infestation on the 2nd day, would they want you to just let the fish die, or treat it? IMO & IME, treating with Cupramine in QT saves MANY more fish than are lost to copper. Personally, I don't think many fish are lost to Cupramine at all; but fish are sometimes lost in QT and its easy to blame the copper. (I wonder how many fish just happen to croak on the 13th day?)
If I was guaranteeing an expensive fish for 14 days, I'd want a competent hobbyist to use Cupramine. You'd have a hard time finding any online dealer or wholesaler who didn't use copper; but they seldom have the fish long enough to completely treat it.
I'd better add the usual disclaimer: although I'm a big fan of prophylactic use of copper; I know the controversy and am not pushing anyone to use it. Just IMO & IME comments.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Me either.
Here's a copy of an easy to handle QT/HT cycling.

"In regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter"

I have held off using a HOB because the QT is tall so I don't fill it all of the way and there would be a 6 or 8" or more waterfall that would result in salt crystals all over the place. The QT is cycled now, but I am considering getting the HOB as I will have 3 fish in quarantine at once plus it will help pick up uneaten food.

 

[JoshuaG]

When ordering from DD, is medicating in QT really needed? From their site info it seems they treat for almost everything that we would do ourselves. Is it just a "better safe then sorry" thing?

 

[blind1993]

"If you want something done right, do it yourself" is probably more like it.

 

[D5HP]

I have ordered from Blue Zoo on a few different occasions and always have been pleased. I lost a fish during the grace period and they refunded me no questions asked.

I do believe that you're more susceptible to losing fish when purchasing online since you're stressing the animals a bit more than you are by taking a drive back from the LFS. However, the fish at the LFS had to get there somehow...and I'm sure everyone has seen plenty of dead fish in buckets at the LFS during acclimation.

For what it's worth, I have never, not ever, seen a bad word written about DD. That says a lot IMO and I am actually excited about purchasing fish from them when the time comes. I don't think I can name a single other online vendor that doesn't have some form of a hate thread somewhere in any business ever.

If you can afford the premium for DD fish (which IMO isn't all that prohibitive) buy them from there given they have what you want...otherwise LA or BZ is a safe bet.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I have ordered from Blue Zoo on a few different occasions and always have been pleased. I lost a fish during the grace period and they refunded me no questions asked.

I do believe that you're more susceptible to losing fish when purchasing online since you're stressing the animals a bit more than you are by taking a drive back from the LFS. However, the fish at the LFS had to get there somehow...and I'm sure everyone has seen plenty of dead fish in buckets at the LFS during acclimation.

For what it's worth, I have never, not ever, seen a bad word written about DD. That says a lot IMO and I am actually excited about purchasing fish from them when the time comes. I don't think I can name a single other online vendor that doesn't have some form of a hate thread somewhere in any business ever.

If you can afford the premium for DD fish (which IMO isn't all that prohibitive) buy them from there given they have what you want...otherwise LA or BZ is a safe bet.

If you buy a fish from LA (they own DD, both owned by F&S); it is shipped from a wholesale facility direct to your door, so I consider the "stress factor" a non-issue. Actually, the fish is being bagged and transported less than a lfs fish. If you use the Fed-Ex "hold at location" sites, you can get your fish at 9AM the next morning. (no extra charge)

 

[D5HP]

If you buy a fish from LA (they own DD, both owned by F&S); it is shipped from a wholesale facility direct to your door, so I consider the "stress factor" a non-issue. Actually, the fish is being bagged and transported less than a lfs fish. If you use the Fed-Ex "hold at location" sites, you can get your fish at 9AM the next morning. (no extra charge)

I realize I didn't explain that one well enough. You're right, overall stress is most definitely limited by ordering online. My point was that as a consumer you are prone to seeing that initial overnight stress more if you're ordering online. I prefer to order online because you can negate the entire stay in a nasty holding tank. Now you're obviously worse off if you go into a shop and pick up a fish that arrived that morning but if it has been sitting in the tank eating well for a week, the fish is probably going to experience less stress from a 20 minute car ride than a ~16+ hour box trip. I realize that fish has already experienced that stress but after a few days of voracious eating it should be just fine.

I do agree though, the hold at location option is a godsend. I never allow my fish to be on trucks until 2PM after losing an entire order.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I realize I didn't explain that one well enough. You're right, overall stress is most definitely limited by ordering online. My point was that as a consumer you are prone to seeing that initial overnight stress more if you're ordering online. I prefer to order online because you can negate the entire stay in a nasty holding tank. Now you're obviously worse off if you go into a shop and pick up a fish that arrived that morning but if it has been sitting in the tank eating well for a week, the fish is probably going to experience less stress from a 20 minute car ride than a ~16+ hour box trip. I realize that fish has already experienced that stress but after a few days of voracious eating it should be just fine.

I do agree though, the hold at location option is a godsend. I never allow my fish to be on trucks until 2PM after losing an entire order.

Yeah, I live in the boonies and Fed-Ex doesn't get here until 3-4PM and I live 10 mins from the Hold site. Since moving here, we've formed a little group of a dozen or so, all that live within 90 mins of the fed-Ex site, in every direction. We all let each other know when we order from LA or DD and meet at Fed-Ex with our own coolers, take our own stuff, and split shipping. Works great!
Bottom line (IMO) I can never remember anyone buying from one of the good online dealers who said they would never do it again. Customer service in the SW livestock business is as good as it gets. Prices, guarantee and customer service sure more than equal the shipping, IMO.

 

[sreefs]

I have bought from several of the better online vendors and DD is Tops. I will pay more for there fish, but I still QT all of them. They are the only one I buy from now, there CS is the best no question! IMHO

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

if you do cupramine butterflyfish, dose it very slowly(over a few days) and I wouldnt exceed .30ppm. Do not dose .25ppm all on the first day.

Good point. When quarantining my clown, I started with half the recommended dose and brought it up to 3/4. One of the nice aspects of Cupramine is it is so easy to dose.