Ornate Leopard Wrasse harassing other leopards to death.

[Moeshi]

I recently took the plunge and added 3 juvenile ornate leopard wrasses to my 70 gallon tank. I've researched the subject a lot, but I haven't read about my particular issue.

When first introduced to the tank, 2 of the 3 wrasses went straight into the sand. The last one stayed out in the open for about an hour before also going into hiding.

Now, this is only three days ago. However the last of the three (the smallest and just about an inch long) is coming out everyday eating pods like a little champ. She doesn't take any frozen or prepared foods yet, but I have high hopes since she seems in such good condition. The two clowns and Scopas tang doesn't bother her the least.
Despite this I've observed whenever the other two wrasses tries to come out of hiding she quickly darts towards them and starts harassing the living hell out of them. She bites, pokes and chases them until they return to the sand. They are both 1½ inches while she is just 1 inch. I was told they would do better if introduced as a trio with small juvenile females, but this doesn't looks good.

I'm at a complete loss on how to remedy the situation. I fear she will stress them to death before long if I don't interfere. I find it really strange since they are both bigger than her (the bully) and that they are all females.

I really need some advice.
Thanks a lot.

-M

 

[ksicard]

Leopards can be very mean sometimes, usually what you did works out but it sounds like you got the short straw and just got unlucky with a particularly mean leopard.

I would try to catch the other 2 leopards and put them in an acclimation box where they cant be harmed. You could leave them in there for 3-7 days to allow the fish to adjust to each other then release them after observing that the mean leopard isn't still going after them.

If not you may have to remove the 2 or the 1 mean leopard if the aggression doesn't let up.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I bought three juvenile ornate leopards. One died in QT after 2 days. The remaining two went through a short QT and then into the DT (180g). Within 2 weeks one was being so aggressive that the other had to be removed or he would have been killed.

 

[Moeshi]

Leopards can be very mean sometimes, usually what you did works out but it sounds like you got the short straw and just got unlucky with a particularly mean leopard.

I would try to catch the other 2 leopards and put them in an acclimation box where they cant be harmed. You could leave them in there for 3-7 days to allow the fish to adjust to each other then release them after observing that the mean leopard isn't still going after them.

If not you may have to remove the 2 or the 1 mean leopard if the aggression doesn't let up.

Would you suggest that I added sand to the box? And I suppose I'll have to get them to eat, since they can't forage in the box.

 

[ksicard]

I talked to Hunter (evolved aka wrasse genius) about a similar issue with my own tank and he recommended just using pvc elbows and what not in the box w/ no sand. Most acclimation boxes have holes or cuts in them so the sand would just fall out of them.

As long as you dont keep them in the box for longer then 5-7 days I don't think sand would be necessary.

 

[Moeshi]

I will try and catch them the next time they're out. Thanks a lot for the quick response.

 

[ilikefish34]

Could consider adding the aggressive one to the acclimation box to allow the other two to establish themselves--and one may do better than two in the box if an extended stay is needed. Just a thought.

Good luck
Mike

 

[Moeshi]

I can't catch the one that's swimming about. Should I try and dig the other ones out? I have a fair idea where they're hiding.

 

[Deinonych]

Could consider adding the aggressive one to the acclimation box to allow the other two to establish themselves--and one may do better than two in the box if an extended stay is needed. Just a thought.

Good luck
Mike

+1

I would not go digging in the sand for the other two.

 

[Moeshi]

I successfully caught the remaining two and put them in the box with some pvc, sand and chaeto from the fuge. I was able to scoop them up from the sand with one move, with the net. The aggressive one is pacing back and forth outside the box freaking the boxed leopards out. One is hiding in a tube and the other one is attempting escape. I will stop by my LFS tomorrow and stock up on all available pods to wait this out. I hope I can get them to feed on BBS as well.

Thanks for the advice. It was very helpful.

 

[Moeshi]

A little update on the situation. When first put into the box the aggressive wrasse would constantly bite the box and cause the other wrasses to stay hidden.
Sadly this proved too much for one of them and it died the day after. The other one however has started to show some vigor and has started to respond to the aggression. Being almost an inch smaller, it seems that the little devil wrasse is starting to respect its boxed rival. Now they're swimming back and forth on either side of the glass of the acclimation box, but the biting and head-butting has subsided (for now).
In addition to this the boxed wrasse has started to feed when presented with live pods. In my desperation to get it to feed I even tried huge freshwater daphnia. This really did the trick and now it eats everything that wriggles and fits into it's mouth.
While the little wrasse has adjusted its internal clock to match my light cycle, the boxed one is mostly active at night. Hence I only manage to feed it once a day at 6am, but I make sure it gets stuffed before she goes to sleep.

What behavioral cues should I look for, before I reintroduce it into the tank?
Also, will a diet of BBS and A. tonsa pods sustain the little girl for now?

I know freshwater foods are considered bad, but are they really that bad, that I should avoid them at all costs and prefer the wrasse to starve?

Thanks.

 

[ilikefish34]

For full disclosure, I have not ever kept Leopards--I'd say that some food is better than no food but the sooner the fish can be weened on proper foods the better. As for behavioral cues... the fish ignoring each other is best and seeing a reduction in aggression is encouraging. Pay close enough attention that the one in the box isn't acting TOO aggressive towards the one in the DT even though it got beat up in the first go around--look for a lack of aggression on both sides.

Sorry about the loss of the one but hopefully you'll end up with a pair in the end.

Good Luck
Mike

 

[Moeshi]

For full disclosure, I have not ever kept Leopards--I'd say that some food is better than no food but the sooner the fish can be weened on proper foods the better. As for behavioral cues... the fish ignoring each other is best and seeing a reduction in aggression is encouraging. Pay close enough attention that the one in the box isn't acting TOO aggressive towards the one in the DT even though it got beat up in the first go around--look for a lack of aggression on both sides.

Sorry about the loss of the one but hopefully you'll end up with a pair in the end.

Good Luck
Mike

The one in the box seems to ignore the aggressive one to the best of it's ability. No matter where she swims the aggressive one is always chasing back and forth along the glass, but she seems more interested in searching for pods than to respond to the aggression now. Ironically the boxed one started to accept frozen food today whilst the one in the DT still hasn't. Also the one in the DT, although tiny, has started to develop significantly darker head markings after one week.

The small one is still very aggressive. I sometimes hear the snapping sound of her teeth jamming in the cut out holes in the acclimation box, as she tries to go for the throat.
The boxed one seems more relaxed as of now, but has started to develop a serious case of ich. I didn't QT the leopards, because I decided based on my research, that my chances for success would be higher that way. Now I'm paying the price for my good intentions and everybody has gotten white spots. I will take the necessary steps to combat that when I can make sure my wrasses wont fight to the death.

I've added sand to the acclimation box as I figured she's gonna be staying for a while...
Any suggestions on how to proceed from here? Should I just wait it out?

 

[Moeshi]

They are now both readily accepting frozen food. The aggression hasn't seen any improvements, and I wonder if it's time to rehome one of the two?

The large one is still content in its little box and happily scoots around in search of pods. All this while the aggressive one is working to tear a hole in the container...

Is it too late to obtain another speciment in replacement for the aggressive wrasse? I really wanted a pair or harem to begin with, but I don't want to jeopardize the health of any of my fish.

Thanks.

 

[evolved]

The aggression hasn't seen any improvements, and I wonder if it's time to rehome one of the two?

At this point, yes.

 

[arashsheikhpoor]

If you can get the harassed ones out, do it! leopards are mean little fish. My ornate and black leopards killed 3 other leopards within 1 month.

 

[Moeshi]

If you can get the harassed ones out, do it! leopards are mean little fish. My ornate and black leopards killed 3 other leopards within 1 month.

That's such a shame. I was at the impression that smaller individuals were able to coexist and form a harem with a dominant male in the end.

Any particular reason why you advice I should keep the aggressive one? I'm much more inclined to keep the passive wrasse and try and get it a mate in the future.

 

[snorvich]

That's such a shame. I was at the impression that smaller individuals were able to coexist and form a harem with a dominant male in the end.

Any particular reason why you advice I should keep the aggressive one? I'm much more inclined to keep the passive wrasse and try and get it a mate in the future.

Part of your problem is you have a very small tank which is marginal at best for one.. Remove one. Leopards love PE mysis.

 

[ca1ore]

FWIW, of all the leopards I've kept, Ornates and potters have been the most aggressive. Do others find that? Actually had to rehome a potters because she was plain psycho.

 

[Moeshi]

Part of your problem is you have a very small tank which is marginal at best for one.. Remove one. Leopards love PE mysis.

Liveaquaria lists all their wrasses to be comfortable at 50 gallons, and my research led me to believe that 70 gallons was the minimum for a small harem. The wrasse should find a new home soon enough.

Both my wrasses spits out any kind of mysis. I suspect it's the size, but I'm not certain.