Oxymonacanthus longirostris pair enters a mixed reef environment
- Thread starter small alien
- Start date
small alien
The fungus is among us.
I don't think I'm allowed to post a link so I'll say there is a thread with Ummmm, fish and Matt Pederson about OSFF on the MOFIB website. Discussion of stomach contents is pretty speculative, however. But it's an interesting thread.
Still looking.
Still looking.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
I wish mine would sleep in a gorgonian. They look beyond ridiculous (and a little half-dead) jammed into the corner of the tank.
bidny, can you post a picture of your tank with your filefish? Would love to see it.
bidny, can you post a picture of your tank with your filefish? Would love to see it.
uhuru
New member
I can do a literature search later but I figured someone that works in the field would know. I would like to see valid data, and I don't mean someone opening up the stomach of a couple of fish.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
http://www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/publish_db/Bulletin/no25/no25007.html
This species is almost all the way down. Of 19 samples, 95% of the food was Scleractinian polyps, 5% filamentous algae, with a note stating "The filamentous algae and eggs among its gut contents probably were taken incidentally along with its major prey."
This species is almost all the way down. Of 19 samples, 95% of the food was Scleractinian polyps, 5% filamentous algae, with a note stating "The filamentous algae and eggs among its gut contents probably were taken incidentally along with its major prey."
uhuru
New member
Thank you! I think the morphology of this fish is also so specialized that it is wrong to say they are well suited to eating straight from the water column. We are simply lucky that they are able to do this in our tanks, and not all of them do - not by a long shot. The text states that OSFF also took in a lot of coral mucus. Perhaps this is something that should be explored further in terms of trying to replicate their natural diet. Hmm I should try soaking some pellets in Ultra Pac.
Do any of you think it is worth supplementing their diet with Acropora?
Clearly there are enough browned out colonies in LFS or in other hobbyist tanks that are otherwise healthy that I could by at a cheap price. Perhaps provide them with the opportunity once a month or every couple of weeks?
One concern woudl be once they get a taste of it would they be willing to go back to prepared foods?
I can appreciate the fact that we are not replicating their diet in the wild. And I can say everyone who has been a part of these two threads are very interested in the long term care of these guys, that being said, they sure are aggresive feeders on a very varied diet that we can influece.
Clearly there are enough browned out colonies in LFS or in other hobbyist tanks that are otherwise healthy that I could by at a cheap price. Perhaps provide them with the opportunity once a month or every couple of weeks?
One concern woudl be once they get a taste of it would they be willing to go back to prepared foods?
I can appreciate the fact that we are not replicating their diet in the wild. And I can say everyone who has been a part of these two threads are very interested in the long term care of these guys, that being said, they sure are aggresive feeders on a very varied diet that we can influece.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
Indeed.
I was just reading an article yesterday in an old issue of Coral where they speculated that the mucus on coral polyps could serve as a base to culture microalgae and bacteria that have certain nutritional properties and amino acids. It suggested that perhaps the corals themselves ingest this mucus as a source of nutrition. I just couldn't bring myself to type in the whole section of the article but maybe I will.
I was just reading an article yesterday in an old issue of Coral where they speculated that the mucus on coral polyps could serve as a base to culture microalgae and bacteria that have certain nutritional properties and amino acids. It suggested that perhaps the corals themselves ingest this mucus as a source of nutrition. I just couldn't bring myself to type in the whole section of the article but maybe I will.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
Eating Prawn Roe
Eating Prawn Roe
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Eating Prawn Roe
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small alien
The fungus is among us.
Eating softened NLS pellets
Eating softened NLS pellets
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Eating softened NLS pellets
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Big E
Premium Member
I've looked at that reference link many times & find it interesting although the sample sizes are very small & hardly conclusive.
I don't get too hung up on the whole "they need a specific food source to survive long term." If you look at that study C. lunula diet is 84% sea anenomes & they are one of the easiest BF's to keep long term in captivity. No one is feeding anemomes to this fish. It also shows little to no corals in the diet yet these guys can do some damage to a reef tank.
C. Auripes is another example of another easily kept BF with 88% of it's food source in anenomes & coral polyps.
It comes down to what exact vitamins, amino acids, ect. the fish get from these coral polyps that can be duplicated in other foods. At this point no one is sure. Some of the fish are more opportunistic & can adapt.
It seems to me that there are a lot more failures due to the fish just not wanting to eat substitute foods verses them withering away even though they are eating these prepared foods with gusto.
I'm not saying a pure coral eater can be switched but that there are a lot of gray areas & unknowns concerning a lot of these fish. I'm looking forward to learning more in the future similar to what has been already found with these file fish.
Success needs to be measured in years & as Steve suggested maybe 3 years would be an acceptable minimum.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
I agree almost completely, and never intended to imply I feel this is conclusive proof of anything. I merely wanted to provide the data that was requested. ANd the woefully small sample size does deject me, also.
However, I disagree with an important issue with this data, and how it can be interpreted. First off, this data can pretty easily show that these fish are NOT obligate consumers. A variety of food items are found in a notable amounts. While anemones may be the most "numerous" by percentage, these fish will eat other items, as available or desired. Secondly, please take notes of the comments. For C. lunula, it even goes as far to state that regional fish show different preferences and consumption patterns.
Perhaps this is most my point- we DO NOT KNOW the mechanism of nutrtion acquisition in these fish. We dont know how, or why, they digest polyps specifically and solely in the wild. And therefore, I dont think its fair, or appropriate, at this time, to say we can successfully keep the filefish un a 100% unnatural diet. As a direct comparison, look at C. bennetti- which is realistically an obligate corralivore in the wild. How many of these fish are maintained successfully in the home aquarium, feeding pellets and mysis? Less than zero, I suggest.
twiggyb
Active member
I keep acros with my OSFF and he still takes frozen as well. Depending on the size and health of the acro you put in there, it can last for months. They constantly pick at it throughout the day so no polyps are ever out, but they still survive and even grow if the colony is big. The only reason I feed acros also is because without them he shrinks down in size relatively quickly, probably because I can only feed him twice a day with the way my schedule is.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Im sorry, I didnt make my details very clear. In this paragraph, the "these fish" refers to the butterflies you previously mentioned, in C. auripes and C. lunula.
In this paragraph, the "these fish" refers to the OSFF.
Big E
Premium Member
I agree we don't know but it remains to be seen till there is further information & possibly more food sources as well as how it's presented............and as we both agree the next test is to see if they can be sustained long term.
"Umm fish?" has two C.plebius that are cosidered 100% coral eaters by that study as well as commonly know coralivores. He's stated they are eating various foods & has kept them for 4 months to date. Hopefully he'll continue to post updates.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638647&highlight=butterfly&page=2
I always wonder what these fish eat before they are big enough to eat coral polyps? It's possible that they would be more inclined to eat other foods at a young age.
I kind of wonder what DFS thoughts are on some of this, because they have sold some of these strict coral eaters over the past few years including a C benneti. It would be nice to hear of the success or failure of some of the people that bought these fish.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Again, I think we are thinking on different scales. In my opinion, 4 months is absolutely nothing. I can live just fine on beer and pizza for 4 months, but it will impair me and certainly will decrease my overall fitness and health.
I also happen to think in an "ecological manner". I find it exceptionally foolhardy to think that we, as humans, can undo 50 million years of evolutionary adapttation and specialization. That type of control isnt possible, IMO.
However, I do agree, "it remains to be seen". That is my point. I too often hear of the "success" with these fish. IMO, success hasnt been achieved yet. It may be on the horizon, but I dont think we can make this claim just yet. Just my opinion.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
I don't know exactly what "well suited" means. I just mean they are really good at it. And that amazes me.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
Does anyone have these fish in an SPS tank where the fish feed solely on the SPS? If so, are the SPS colonies killed or significantly damaged? Or is there just no polyp extension? These anwer to that could be a big clue. Are they eating coral flesh or mostly mucus?
