Pairing a GSM and a Perc

R

Rook

New member
Yes you read that correctly,


I had a pair of GSM clowns for a long time, 6-8 years, until 6 months ago when my female died for an unexplained reason. Well, I just purchased a juv. Percula clown that I intend to pair with my "male" GSM, thought I anticipate that the GSM will convert to female and the perc will convert from "it" to male.


I had good success pairing the GSM pair after having the female for 3-4 years on its own. I simply added the male GSM to the display tank in a small critter container with holes drilled into it. After a week or two, I released the male. The female showed dominance right away and the male backed down right way. Within days they were together.

I plan to try the same method with a twist. Currently the Perc is in QT along with a Blue Spot Jaw Fish, but the perc is seperated in the critter container. I intend to pull the maroon from the display tank and move her into the QT and at the same time move the blue spot to the display tank (which should allow the blue spot to settle as well.)

Then, leave the maroon and the per (still in the critter container) in the QT for a week or so. This should allow the clowns to start to acclimate and get used to each other being in the same tank.

Then, move both clowns to the display tank.

What I'm not sure on is when I move both clowns in the display tank is if I should keep the perc in the critter container for another week, or if I should put the maroon in the critter container for a week. My thoughts are, if I put the maroon in the critter container, it will allow the perc to acclimate and perhaps the maroon will be less territorial once released. However, I may want the maroon to be territorial and the perc to be submissive to as to give in quickly when the maroon attacks. Thus, it may be better to allow the maroon to swim freely and to have the perc in the critter container for the extra week in the display tank.


Thoughts??
 
Maroon was the male and stayed fairly small. I'd say 2 1/2 inch. The perc is a juvinile, roughly 1 1/2 inch. The maroon, for a maroon, is fairly docile. Has been hand fed most if its life; submitted instantly to the prior female when I put them together. The only time he was ever agressive was when I used to have an anemone (which I don't have currently).

BTW, someone has successfully paired, bred and raised fry from a white strip maroon (more agressive) with an occy (less agressive). So clearly it can be done.
 
Will you be starting with your original adult GSM, or two new juveniles? I'd think the only way to do this would be to start with tank raised juvies that "don't know any better", lol, for lack of a better way to put it. The author of "Clownfishes" states she has tried this pairing for a long time w/o success.

Although I have no reason to doubt proaquatix, I am a little skeptical of their claim. The good new is most clownfish hybrids ARE reproductively viable, contrary to what proaquatrix says on their site.

As for pairing, I think the "beat the crap out of the little guy" is a natural part of their pairing and natural selection, and probably ensures a healthy mate and broodstock.
 
tufacody said:
Will you be starting with your original adult GSM, or two new juveniles? I'd think the only way to do this would be to start with tank raised juvies that "don't know any better", lol, for lack of a better way to put it. The author of "Clownfishes" states she has tried this pairing for a long time w/o success.

Although I have no reason to doubt proaquatix, I am a little skeptical of their claim. The good new is most clownfish hybrids ARE reproductively viable, contrary to what proaquatrix says on their site.

As for pairing, I think the "beat the crap out of the little guy" is a natural part of their pairing and natural selection, and probably ensures a healthy mate and broodstock.
Click to expand...



Most clownfish hybrids are viable because even though they're different species, they are still of the same genus. Maroon clowns aren't of the same species OR genus. So I believe the offspring would not be viable.
All clowns except maroons - Amphiprion
Maroon clowns - Premnas
 
Last edited:
I think you are doing it the right way, if it can be done. Perconally, I think it will be a death sentence for the percula, but keeping them from the main display is probably your best bet. Keep the maroon qt'd and let the perc establish himself in the DT first like you suggested. Good luck...
Rook said:
Yes you read that correctly,


I had a pair of GSM clowns for a long time, 6-8 years, until 6 months ago when my female died for an unexplained reason. Well, I just purchased a juv. Percula clown that I intend to pair with my "male" GSM, thought I anticipate that the GSM will convert to female and the perc will convert from "it" to male.


I had good success pairing the GSM pair after having the female for 3-4 years on its own. I simply added the male GSM to the display tank in a small critter container with holes drilled into it. After a week or two, I released the male. The female showed dominance right away and the male backed down right way. Within days they were together.

I plan to try the same method with a twist. Currently the Perc is in QT along with a Blue Spot Jaw Fish, but the perc is seperated in the critter container. I intend to pull the maroon from the display tank and move her into the QT and at the same time move the blue spot to the display tank (which should allow the blue spot to settle as well.)

Then, leave the maroon and the per (still in the critter container) in the QT for a week or so. This should allow the clowns to start to acclimate and get used to each other being in the same tank.

Then, move both clowns to the display tank.

What I'm not sure on is when I move both clowns in the display tank is if I should keep the perc in the critter container for another week, or if I should put the maroon in the critter container for a week. My thoughts are, if I put the maroon in the critter container, it will allow the perc to acclimate and perhaps the maroon will be less territorial once released. However, I may want the maroon to be territorial and the perc to be submissive to as to give in quickly when the maroon attacks. Thus, it may be better to allow the maroon to swim freely and to have the perc in the critter container for the extra week in the display tank.


Thoughts??
Click to expand...
 
KillerReef said:
I think you are doing it the right way, if it can be done. Perconally, I think it will be a death sentence for the percula, but keeping them from the main display is probably your best bet. Keep the maroon qt'd and let the perc establish himself in the DT first like you suggested. Good luck...
Click to expand...

I'm not certain I want the perc to establish itself; that may give it some confidence to fight back. I want it to submit to the maroon as quickly as possible. This is basically the same procedure I used to introduce the two maroons years ago and the male submitted very quickly as the newcomer and the female dominated quickly as the established resident. Plus, percula can be pretty feisty clowns too.

BTW, this will be the male that I currently have and had paired with the prior female, not a new juvenile maroon. The percula is a juvinile but its a good 1.5 - 2 years old now; though percs age slowly.

Don't worry, I won't allow the perc to perish, I'll be sitting by watching to make sure its not a UFC deathmatch ;)
 
I have no idea how quickly the clowns change gender but maroon's are pretty aggressive. Any aggression early on may be territorial and not part of the pairing process. Of course, this depends on how quickly the clowns are able to change gender.

Maybe you could try a female perc. thats larger than your maroon.

Good luck, and let us know how this goes. Very interesting.
 
ExtremeClownfish said:
Most clownfish hybrids are viable because even though they're different species, they are still of the same genus. Maroon clowns aren't of the same species OR genus. So I believe the offspring would not be viable.
All clowns except maroons - Amphiprion
Maroon clowns - Premnas
Click to expand...

Yes, this is an excellent point. However, the offspring of interspecific hybrids are most often sterile. Not the case with clownfish. I think this at least gives greater hope that a marroon/perc cross, or intergeneric hybrid, might produce fertile offspring. A study of the chromosone complexes of both fish would be extremely useful, but I am not aware of any.
 
I have faith I can pull it off. Thanks for the sounding board and advice. I plan to video tape the attempts to pair them and to try and diary the progress. If I get them to spawn and I can raise the fry, I'll find a research lab to work with to see if they are viable or not.
 
These hybrids were going on divers den a year or two ago. I believe it was the same people that you posted earlier but cant remember offhand. I do remember a hurricane wiped out the breeding pair though. It can be done but it is very rare to find a docile enough maroon.
 
It can be done, I have done it by accident. I have a female ocellaris and a male white striped maroon. I've raised the fry and they are still laying eggs every 13-14 days.

good-luck.
 
@thecoralreef Hey I don't know that you are still around :) Good to know that they are still a great pair and laying eggs, do you still hatch them?
 
Still around. I haven't taken the eggs in about 2 years. Moved twice in the last year and a half so didn't want to get it up and going just to tear it down again. I'm permanent now so I'll start up again probably over the winter again. Going to build a fishroom with display tank built into the wall. Currently looking for a larger tank, something around 250-300 gallons. I may have to custom order a tank.

Mike
 
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