Pale corals, low growth rates???

[drock59]

Ooops, just trying to hijack.

If your skimmmer question is for me then:

http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/searchhomekeyresult5.asp

PS-2000. Recirculating, rated for 180. I honestly dont believe in overskimming.

 

[lcheesman]

Hello,

Thanks guys for all of your responses....I really hope with all your help we can pin down the problem...it's been going on a long while (1 1/2years) and I must admit I find it hard to sit in my living room looking at my tank without ending dazed trying to work the problem out.

If the skimmer question is to me Highlander then:
I skim a bit wet with a deltec ap850, it seems to have a hard time collecting that much....I had cyano about 1 year ago, I installed this skimmer and it knocked it out within 2 weeks. The skimmer produces a mass of fine bubbles throughout the entire column and is tuned to the best I can get it. I clean the cup every 4-5 days. I do not believe in cleaning every day as this seems to lessen skimate for a day or so. I still find it hard to believe I have a few algae issues...surely if there were excess nutrients though the corals would be dark brown?

Coralline growth is very slow, the chemistry of the aquarium should see lush growths of coralline IMO.

I have at times used only rowaphos in a small bag in the sump but never completely stopped it...could it be the rowaphos causing the paleness? It's not just the sps, it's everything really.

Magnesium is around 1400ppm right now, I just tested it.

I do not use filter material or floss, just the skimmer which recieves surface water.

 

[shelburn61]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6891650#post6891650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lcheesman
I'm not running bare bottom no, and shelburn61 mentions stirring a shallow sand bed. I think lack of nutrients may be a problem..my water is always christal clear and blue. Wahat about yours shelburn61?

The process of paling takes about 2 weeks, 4 weeks really quite pale.

When I use polyfilters or lots of carbon or a bit of ozone the corals get even paler. Literally within a few days it worsens.
Do you find this shelburn61?

My problems started 2-3 months ago after treating with Interceptor. Red bugs are gone, but I had a substantial algae bloom from the pod dieoff. Water changes took care of some STN issues and most of the algae.

The prime example of my problem was a 2.5" ORA blue tort frag I got after the above problems subsided. I initially kept it on the bottom to acclimate and it began to lighten immediately. It came to me an intense midnight blue/purple and is now mostly white with blue coralites. It has recieved good flow throughout. PE is the best of any coral and it continues to look healthy and grow slowly. I can see zooxanthelae lines in the tissue so it has not completely bleached, but it refuses to regain color

I really doubt lack of nutrients is the problem for me. Before the problems started, I had literally 0 algae growth. Coraline growth was an algae bloom for me. Now I have a brown, fuzzy slime (I guess its diatoms?) covering the rocks and glass, and chaeto grows much better than ever in the fuge.

lcheeseman,
I do not run ozone or any chemical fitration except carbon. I actually run more carbon now, but I haven't noticed a difference. If these things make the problem worse for you it might point to a excessive light or UV or a bad bulb as clarifying the water would amplify these problems.

The only improvements so far came when I switched out my 6-month-old XM 175w. I switched to a 250w Coralvue 10k and things improved a little. Some corals have responded better than others. The improvement might have come from the shortened photoperiod during the bulb switch, but I think it was the bulb itself.

I didn't see which brand bulb you use?

Tank specs (see below also):
Water parameters are all good, w/ nutrients testing at 0 by salifert.
Temp: 78.5-80, pH 8.1-8.2
Flow is decent, but could be better (working on that).
Photoperiod:12hrs actinic, 8hrs MH.
Topoff run through DIY kalk reactor with pickling lime.

 

[lcheesman]

Bulbs are made by arcadia and have been changed during this problem. I have 2 160watt 03 actinics. My tank is 30inches deep, do you think that harmful uv could reach the bottom to still cause trouble there?

 

[shelburn61]

You acclimated when you switched out bulbs right?

I don't know much about arcadia bulbs, but I just mention bulbs b/c sometimes "bad" bulbs get blamed for otherwise unexplained bleaching.

I believe change in spectrum is more of an issue than UV when a bulb goes "bad" and your glass shield should filter out most UV anyway. I probably shouldn't have mentioned UV.

 

[lcheesman]

You acclimated when you switched out right?
yes I did but remember I am the same issues with newly aquired frags and corals.

This is what I belive could be wrong from the information I have gathered from these posts.

1.I could have a toxin thats coming through the ro/di water perhaps a heavy metal in abnormal quantities...copper, lead or the like

Action: Renew di cartridge, run some tests..copper etc.

2.There may be a long term lack of something, most likely nutrients perhaps phosphate, nitrate, iron etc. Perhaps too little feeding.

Action: Caution required here, I will increase each component one at a time and monitor results if no 1 didn't sort the problem that is.

3.My 300watts of 03 actinic could be giving out harmful uv.
Action:switch off for a few weeks

so far I have ruled out.
Salinity
Temperature
Main Lights
Predation

It seems there is no deffinitive answer at the moment as to what is happening. I would like to say I am reasonably careful where my reef is consered and the problem I am having seems beyond my scope of knowledge.

I am going to tackle each possible cause of the problem one at a time slowly with an aim to find the problem over the coming months.

I would like to thank all that have contributed thus far, I am so glad there are folk about like yourselves that genuinely like to help. I will be posting my findings here every few days.

 

[lcheesman]

Okay Guys,

Last night I turned off my VHO Philips 03 160watt actinics just in case they are giving off something thats effecting the corals.

Today I have noticed polyps on 2 corals that had zero before...this may just be coincidence but I will follow the test through for a week to see if there is any significant improvement.

 

[lcheesman]

Guys,

Would 29 centigrade cause pale pigmentation or stressed corals?

 

[shelburn61]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6969142#post6969142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lcheesman
Guys,

Would 29 centigrade cause pale pigmentation or stressed corals?

Yep. It might. That's like 84.2F which is definitely high for a reef. If the temp rose quickly it could definitely cause bleaching.

I think some people do run their tanks this hot in the summer, but I remember reading the other day about the great barrier reef bleaching at 84.

 

[maxicurls]

I'm having a similar problem: no coralline growth, pale corals, recession on acros. Did you ever figure out what was going on, icheesman?

 

[hugorsf]

Sorry for reborn this topic but i have the same problem. Do you solve the color problem?

.I could have a toxin thats coming through the ro/di water perhaps a heavy metal in abnormal quantities...copper, lead or the like

I think my problem could be this too...

 

[Timfish]

Check your phosphates. You can kill corals a lot faster by having phosphates a little to low than having phosphates way to high. Here's an interesting qoute by Chalres Delbeek "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks, I can't help but be reminded of bleached corals reefs . . . Our crystal clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs." For more reading:

Phosphate uptake in corals http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/16/2749.full
Ammonium uptake: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/umrsmas/bullmar/1979/00000029/00000004/art00011
Nitrate uptake: http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_48/issue_6/2266.html
Fish as major carbonate producers http://www.pnas.org/content/108/10/3865
Effects of Anemone fish on anemones: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10236240500057929#.UpS4pyeJ7Mo

 

[LouH]

I had the same condition in my tank for a very long time. Phosphate and nitrate were zero and water chemistry was spot on. I couldn't grow chaeto.

My solution was to implement an auto feeder programmed to dose flakes and Cyclopseeze twice per day. I've been feeding since September, and growth and color have improved in my SPS. My observations tell me that I need to be in the range of 2-4 ppb for growth and color.

 

[Osteoclast]

Timfish

I enjoyed the scientific papers you linked above. Thank you for providing these data. The coral culture experiments were especially interesting in the J Exp Biol paper. Hard data as you have provided adds to theory and hypotheses often supporting or refuting. It is appreciated by many readers when a hobbiest goes out of his/her way to provide supporting data for his arguments-thanks again.

 

[jojojo16]

Sick Coral? Please help

Sick Coral? Please help

This guy here is very droopy and not pointing up the last couple days. Is that normal? It was opening up every day until 10 days ago. My water quality is perfect

 

[jojojo16]

Sick coral? Please help

Sick coral? Please help

This guy here is very droopy and not pointing up the last couple days. Is that normal? It was opening up every day until 10 days ago. My water quality is perfect

https://albumizr.com/a/mgSN

 

[blackthunda77]

its unfortunate that there was no resolution to this. The OP might as well be writing my story. Ive been having the exact same problems from over 2 years now. Poor corralling growth, pale and diminishing corals, etc.

 

[tkeracer619]

I think somewhere along the way ULNS got a bad rep, but I don't necessarily think they're bad, just often not implemented well. The idea behind it is not low nutrient from low feeding but from massive nutrient export. This takes years and a very mature reef to pull off successfully. In your case I would likely start dosing nitrites and reduce the phosphate export until they are at least measurable.

This is my tank before I moved. ULNS. No measurable nitrates or phosphates and I fed this tank like this 2-3 times a day, essentially a small flat of hikari mysis per day, nori, and 5-7 cubes of frozen. Best watched 1080p and fullscreen.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N1cg8gkR_1w" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>