PC vs. T-5's

[captbunzo]

Besides, there is nothing wrong with adjusting saturation, contrast, brightness, etc on photos - it is very common in digital photography post processing. Real photographers do it all the time. It's not frowned upon. It's just about cleaning up images.

I suppose if we were better photographers and all had fancy cameras and knew the precise setting for every knob, it wouldn't be necessary.

And you've proved nothing except you have very pour debate & writing skills. And that you're a relatively rude person. And oh, you're history. I can see you are a LONG term, credible poster. I think you're up to 13 know. Way to go, superman.

We bow to your superior knowledge...

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Ovaltine, I respect your opinions, but do you have any articles that support your counter claims? I'll try to dig up some articles on T5s and we can compare them.

Also, even if a T5 shifted the color spectrum slightly in 6 months does NOT mean that they aren't effective and need to be replaced. I'm sure it would help if they were replaced though. Thing will grow just fine under them. Heck, FWIW I'm running a 1.5 year old metal halide right now. Things seem to be doing fine.

Also, the excuse of photo manipulation is a really bad case. I would highly suggest not using it as a point of arguement. *points at his occupation* Trust me, I know photo adjustment.

 

[Snprhed]

I think ovaltine is right about the time frame, I have heard it before. They actually are supposed to burn longer (T5's) but they start losing par at5-7 months. Now the guy I heard it from was growing mad SPS, for less demanding systems you can probably go 6-9 months, or maybe even 12-14 fr a softie tank.

Now having said that I still think t5'S are FAR superior in PPFD

 

[Snprhed]

Oh I have seen tanks that look like that without any photoshopping.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

There are a lot of people who are getting 18 months or longer use out of T5's but they do shift color. Iwan has had to replace his lamps at 8 months or so to keep the color and growth where he wants it. He is running on the ragged edge to begin with. He is running a lot of lamps over his tank but he wasn't using reflectors until he added the ATI lighting unit. His experience does prove their is a spectrum shift, Just like their is with PC's and T12's and halides.

There are 2 problems with PC's. The design is horrible when it comes to directing light into a specific direction. Most of the light created on the upper side of the tubes is blocked from entering the tank. Second is the heat they create. Heat lowers the output of the lamp and causes the phosphores to age more rapidly. It is pretty common to hear about people who run PC's a year or more to have major algae outbreaks because of the color shift.

My overdriven T5's got a bit hammered because I didnt run fans for the first month or so. Even so all but the front 2 lamps which were in the hottest part of the canopy lasted better than 14 months. My aquablues still had better than 80% of the output of a new lamp after 14 months. If I had ran fans from the start it might have even been better.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Okay, I didn't get to search long. I actually need to get started on my real job. I compared and compiled all the information that I could gather from the references below to come up with this.

Conclusion*
Compact Fluorescent (100w)** - 1,600 lumens per bulb
Power Compact*** - 2,250 lumens per bulb
T8 (Normal Output) - 2,500 lumens per bulb
T12 Standard - 2,000 lumens per bulb
T12 VHO - 5,940 lumens per bulb
T5 Standard - 2,900 lumens per bulb
T5 HO - 5,000 lumens per bulb
250w Metal Halide**** - 5,500 lumens

* All output records are on 4ft bulbs. Except Compact Fluorescent, the Power Compact, and the Metal Halide.
** The Compact Fluorescent is a single, mogul based bulb
*** The Power Compact is a 3ft, 96 watt bulb
**** Assuming the Metal Halide covers the same amount of space as a four bulb fixture, we can conclude that it would have a comparitive rating of 5,500 lumens. Actual output is 22,000 lumens

References
(A) http://www.ecmweb.com/ops/electric_fluorescent_lamp_coming/
(Abstract: See Data Table)

(B) http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls
(Abstract: See Data Table)

(C) http://trickstr.tripod.com/lighting.htm
(Abstract: "96w PC's come in 2 and 4 bulb retro-fit kits. These are rated at 8500 lumens. We took a reading at a depth of 12" of 8000 lumens.") **Note: Tests done in this article are with 4 bulb fixtures

(D) http://www.specialty-lights.com/plant-grow-faq3.html
(Abstract: See Data Table)

(E) http://www.discount-hydro.com/lightbulbs.asp
(Abstract: "250w MH Universal Bulb (22,000 Lumens)")

(F) http://www.seasky.org/aquarium/aquarium_faq_page03.html
(Abstract: "VHO lumens per lamp = 5940 (Phillips F48T12/D/VHO daylight, initial)VHO watts per lamp = 110 (ditto)VHO cost per lamp = ~$30")

 

[Ovaltine]

capt bunz And you've proved nothing except you have very pour debate & writing skills.

suffer fools for that one


Firstly, I was typing quickly and I don't think this is quite the forum to attempt pristine spelling. I'm not concerned with getting it just right on a thread, ok pal. Secondly, your sardonic remarks are ironic considering you're doing what you accuse me of doing, being rude. A finally, should you want to debate anything, name the forum and I'll assure you I'll leave you reeling trying to figure out how you became such a simpleton.

 

[Ovaltine]

see, typing fast again, that was and finally

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Ovaltine, you started out with a decent debate, but now you are falling into what others are saying and not just ignoring it. You're quickly becoming a disrepectful forum troll. For your own good, I would keep future comments like that to yourself so we can have a clean debate.

On a lighter note, I'll be waiting for proof that a Power Compact can out perform a T5 without using anectodtal proof such as an existing tank or a thread. :thumbsup: I'm very eager to see what you have.

 

[mhurley]

Ovaltine,

consider this a warning on personal attacks against other members.

Type slowly, thoughtfully and cautiously in the future.

 

[Gwalker]

Good shot mods! Looks like we won't have to see that guy again.

 

[BlueCorn]

[chimp]

Kids these days....

 

[pwhitby]

Thanks to the Moderators.

Paul.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

WOW! It took 9 minutes and 2 Mods to clean that up

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Thanks for the clean up


Now back to our troll-free, regularly scheduled program.

_____________________

 

[mhurley]

Wow....

See folks...All we ask is for a considerate and polite discussion and debate on the topics. When it starts to head south, we put in reminders to watch where you are going, and not to take things to a personal level with people.

For those that saw what that former member posted (before it was removed), that's exactly how you don't respond in any situation....Unless of course you want to get banned for life from here.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Oh how tempting it is to be goofy here. But that'll get me banned I'll just have to hold it in

 

[BlueCorn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7442525#post7442525 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mhurley
For those that saw what that former member posted (before it was removed), that's exactly how you don't respond in any situation....Unless of course you want to get banned for life from here.

and a phone call to your mother.

:lol:

 

[mhurley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7442535#post7442535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beerguy
and a phone call to your mother.

:lol:

Yep...warning to all.....schools out...This time of the year gets nuts for us.

Volunteering here over the last few years has convinced me that the 12 month school idea is a great concept.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7442624#post7442624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mhurley
Yep...warning to all.....schools out...This time of the year gets nuts for us.

Volunteering here over the last few years has convinced me that the 12 month school idea is a great concept.

:lol: I never thought of it that way. I guess I can see where being a mod would be the worst at this time.

 

[Snprhed]

disrepectful forum troll


Hey thats my job!