People with multiple angels please help!

[IwannaClarion]

sucks to hear youre still having ick problems. my angels and 2 tangs in QT havent had any as of yet. my tanks been empty for 4 weeks now... getting close to restocking!! cant wait!

personally i like the mardel coppersafe treatment. ive always used that with good results so far. you keep trying new medications... first it was mardel, then that RX stuff, now its seacure. you should stick to one brand. im still not sure, but it seems you had all those problems in your display when you switched to that RX stuff and started adding it directly to the tank. coincidence?

BTW- are you serious about getting that passer?

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Who knows what caused the outbreak in my 125. I added the coral tank to the sump. I used the RxP for a little bit and it didn't bother anything until weeks later, so who really knows. Copper is copper, there is no way around that. It is just a matter of getting the right amount of copper in the tank, whichever medicine gets it there. My fish today seem fine, no ick, maybe only a little on their fins. I didn't know copper couldn't kill ick on the fish themselves? What does kill ick on the fish? I think I may get more cleaner shrimp for the 125g. Anyone had any experience with cleaner wrasses? I had one when I first got into the hobby. It didn't have much to clean and ended up dying. Now that I have three angels, I hope I can keep it alive with them. I heard they are hard to keep, but if they can help keep my fish ick free, then it's worth a shot. Are the prone to copper or could I put them in my QT tank? Do they eat ick?

 

[jim48]

I've also used Mardel coppersafe with good results. I am confused with the amount of water changes you are doing. You should treat the tank with copper and let it stand for a few days at least, I believe the instructions for the medication will tell you to do this also.

Also increasing the tank water temperature will speed up the life cycle of the parasitic infection, which is about 30 days. Every time you change water with the parasite in the tank all your implements are getting these little buggers on them. Make sure and clean these items thoroughly before using them again.

 

[jim48]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9626567#post9626567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
Who knows what caused the outbreak in my 125. I added the coral tank to the sump. I used the RxP for a little bit and it didn't bother anything until weeks later, so who really knows. Copper is copper, there is no way around that. It is just a matter of getting the right amount of copper in the tank, whichever medicine gets it there. My fish today seem fine, no ick, maybe only a little on their fins. I didn't know copper couldn't kill ick on the fish themselves? What does kill ick on the fish? I think I may get more cleaner shrimp for the 125g. Anyone had any experience with cleaner wrasses? I had one when I first got into the hobby. It didn't have much to clean and ended up dying. Now that I have three angels, I hope I can keep it alive with them. I heard they are hard to keep, but if they can help keep my fish ick free, then it's worth a shot. Are the prone to copper or could I put them in my QT tank? Do they eat ick?

The parasite (ick) as we call it has a life cycle of approximately 30 days. The white spots we see on the fish is the cyst phase of the life cycle. After several days in cyst form, the cyst will burst open and many free swimming little parasites are thrust into the aquarium water. The copper will kill the free swimming parasite in the water, which is always present. Healthy fish with a good strong immune system can fight off the parasite. When the fish get stressed is when they are vulnerable to these little pests.

So, to completely rid your system of ick you must medicate for a full 30 days. In this way you can completely illiminate all the free swimming parasites. During this time you don't want to add any new fish or stress the existing fish in any way. You do have to change water as per the medications directions, but you should not overdue this because of stressing the fish each time you do it.

Sounds to me like you are going to have to start with a fresh 30 day interval while keeping the copper level in the tank at the medication recommended strength. As long as you are seeing cysts on your fish occassionally, that means that there are free swimming parasites in the water and as long as there are free swimming parasites and cysts the life cycle is continuing. Raising the water temperature into at least the low 80's will speed up the life cycle of the parasite and get rid of these pest for you.

I would also feed minimal amounts during this medication period. It will not hurt the fish and it will keep your quarantine tank cleaner so they don't get stressed any more than is necessary.

 

[scoutmaniak]

Well bud ive got your luck!! I woke up today with more than half my fish with ich!!! The majestic has it, the flame has it, the coral beauty is covered not sure if it will make it, my lawn mower blenny is dead, two damsels have it, and the male tomato clown has it!!!!!!! This is crazy man. The fish all looked great last night, now most are swimming in the current, and not looking very well. I dont have the room to Qt all the fish period. Im about to just give them all to the LFS and have a coral only tank, this is really making me mad. Inverts are so much easier to keep alive. Plus with no fish the nitrates, and such will be 0...

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Well since I have 3 angels in a 55g tank, the water gets pretty dirty. I do about a 10g water change a week. There are huge turds on the bottom of the tank, I syphoon them out and about 10g worth. Make up some new water and add it in. When I am adding in new water, it is tap water, I don't have a RO unit. Am I adding in ick to the tank? I don't know what the recommended level for copper is. I've been asking that, but no one seems to know. My copper level is probably around .5 ppm right now. It was non existant earlier. My fish seem good now, not too much ick, some on the fins but not like last night. So what is the best way to kill off ick? My display tank only needed to be ick free for 30 days then since that's how long the cycle is? Regardless of medicine, as long as the copper level is right, that should be the only thing that matters. I just don't know what to set it at. I know the fish may be a little stressed due to 3 angels in a small tank. But my emperor seemed to have it bad, then the queen and the gray wasn't all that bad. Weird since my emperor is the boss of the tank, the queen gets along with everyone and the gray gets chased by the emperor. You'd think the gray would have it the most?

Scoutmaniak, don't give up yet! You don't have anywhere to put a QT tank? What about under the tank? Anywhere! Just don't give up! You could always get rid of the freshwater tank, saltwater is better anyway! HAHA!

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

After doing some research, I think the best way to treat them for ich is with hyposalinity. I really don't want to do it, but looks like I have no other choice. I am going to buy a refractometer off ebay, can anyone recommend one? How about this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/Salinity-Salt-R...103925075QQcategoryZ11876QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Seems to be the best price. Will it be good enough to accurately measure what I need to do? I was kind of confused on the accuracy. I guess it is good to +/- .0001 ? like the others listed on ebay. Also, anyone have any tips/pointers on hyposalinity or refractometers, help me out! I want to cure my fish and have a healthy tank. If it doesn't happen, I may just end up selling everything and putting a down payment on a new sports bike, I miss my old gixxer.

 

[scoutmaniak]

hahaha, get the bike!! Run away while you still can!!

I did hypo with just the plan jane IO hydrometer. I ran it at 1.012 for like 2 weeks then increaced the SG a few points a week till it was back to the 1.026 that I run. It didnt bother the fish at all, if anything they looked better in the freshwater than the salt, lol. Hyop will just knock off the ich, but wont kill it unless you have good copper, or you wait long enough for it to die.
I was thinking of taking the FW tank down, but its the only tank that is going great. I hardly ever tuch it!! Hell my little nano is doing great too, but it only has two fish. This new tank has been nothing but trouble!!!!! I am getting so tired of spending all this money on more and more stuff because people on this site say " You have to have it" , and when I get it, nothing changes!! Im just gonna see what happends, and see about just keeping one or two angels. I could care less about the clownfish and damsels... I realy wish you the best man, im just rabling on.

Michael

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Yeah it sucks. I am unsure what I want to do as well. I am sick of messing with everything and my room is full of tanks and equipment etc. I am torn. I'd love to have a nice reef tank and a large tank with my angels, but it's at a hefty price.

I have some bad news, well it could be....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9632541#post9632541

Nothing is set in stone yet, but if I get enough interest. I just may sell everything. I might want to keep my 30g and reef setup, maybe get another clown, 6 line wrasse, chromis and other reef safe fish. Who knows.... this is definitely a sad day though.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

I am trying to figure out a way to get rid of ich. I feel if I could kill the ich off and not have it in my tank or on my fish, I would keep everything. So what am I doing wrong? Am I even worrying too much/ My angels still eat very well, they do seem less active, the ich might be effecting them, but they're still eating. I know stress caused them to lower their immune system, so I have been soaking their algae sheets in garlic. They could be stressed due to the tank size. I wonder if they will be ok in the 125g? I just don't want to deal with this anymore! I hate ich and the problems! I really don't want to give up my angels, corals, or anything. I was wondering if I could add some corals to the display tank that the angels won't eat. I want to give them a more at home in the wild feeling. Maybe that will be less stressful for them and they could fight off ich. Also, would hooking up a UV sterilizer kill the ich? I need a new bulb for that. Can ick get in through tap water? I want a RO unit, but I just don't have money for all this stuff. Doesn't look like I will be getting a new bike this season regardless. Might as well keep my stuff and try to fight off ich.... this sucks.....

 

[scoutmaniak]

How long have the fish been in QT?? And no, ich can not come in through the tap. A UV light will kill ich, but not rid your system of it. It just kinda helps control it. I have xenia, frog spawn, shrooms, and zoos in with my angels, and only the majestic will pick on the zoos some times. Ive heard grey angels are the worst in a reef, but you could work around their habbits like what im doing. Im just about to buy this stuff called ick-attack, to see if it will kill some of the ich. As long as most is under control the fish will be able to fight it off. Im in the same boat as you with the water too. Ive been useing tap in my nano for almost 2 years with no problems.. I have no algea problems or ich, so it cant be the water.
I guess we'll just have to work this out. One day we can look back and laugh...I hope

Michael

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Ok, well I am glad that ick can't be in the tap water, that would be nasty, I'd hate to drink it! Well I would have to get a new bulb for my UV, but that isn't guaranteed to fix it, the bulb keeps flickering on and off. I heard copper and hyposalinity are the only two known treatments to successfully kill ich. I have been doing tons of research. Copper should be around .2 ppm, but not higher then .25 or it will harm the fish. Some people swear by copper, others hypo. It's a toss up I guess. I wonder if I should do a freshwater dip to my angels then reacclimate them to the QT tank, but I am worried that would stress them out even more and cause more ich. The ich is all over my fish, but it's weird. When I wake up, they seem fine, by then end of the day, they are covered! So I don't know if it's ok or not, if they will be able to fight it off. They all eat but seem less active.

As far as angels in reef tanks, I'd love to do it. Majestic is supposed to be one of the best, along with blueface and regal angels. That sucks about the gray being one of the worst. I have a decent amount of corals now, but they are all small. Crocea clam, hammers, frogspawn, neon green leather, many polyps zoos shrooms etc, leather toadstool, acro, cabbage, kenya tree, colt, and I am getting some more neon leathers, red sea xenia, and monti cap. I wonder what would survive with the angels? That way I could limit my tank down to one, that'd be great and a lot less work. I just gotta solve this ick problem, if anyone has any input, please let me know! I'll be putting up a post in the disease treatment section.

 

[scoutmaniak]

Well not about the ich, but your corals list sound pretty safe to me. That is the list im hoppin to get. Angels are mainly polyp eaters, so if you can stay away from tiny corals you should be good. Ive never seen the majestic eat them, it just pulls them off some times. I guess it is fun... All you can do is add the corals you want and see what gets nipped. Then youll know. I cant wait to see your tank going again!! You have some of the coolest angels out there, so it should be great!! Good luck man,

Michael

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

I appreciate it, thanks! I think you should try to get a pair of flames again! I am going to try the hyposalinity treatment. Hopefully that works. I just have to get some feedback on a refractometer I am looking at on ebay. I really want to see my angels color change, that may be the only thing keeping me going right now.

I have a lot of polyps in my reef tank, so I doubt they will survive. Most of my corals are small, they are mainly growing frags. Also the clam might not do well either. I was thinking when the angels get bigger, make a U shaped live rock formation that faces toward the viewer of the tank. Stretch it up to the top and have my corals in there, but the angels couldn't get through. Know what I mean?

Is there anyway you could treat your fish with hypo? You should probably do what I am doing. Have your tank fishless for a while. That 55g tank you have could serve as a QT tank, I've proved that!!! I just figure that I'd rather go through the stress now for a couple months then deal with it for the rest of the tanks existence, never have to worry about ich again as long as you QT every new livestock. Goodluck and don't trade any fish in!

 

[scoutmaniak]

:lol: Dont worry I was just venting, I was really mad. Im my tank I have to smaller islands so the fish have alot or room to turn around. I just ordered a pulsing sinularia, so ill see how the angels treat it. It is a leather so it sould be safe. For some reason the fish seem less streesed today, and have less spots, but I know its not over. I have a friend that has a 30g tank, that I mite use as a Qt for a few months. That will give the corals some time to grow. I mite have to take the tank down again to get the fish out... I hate that part!! Oh well, you got to do what you got to do.

Michael

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Yeah, I know what you mean! Hopefully I can cure my fish so I don't give up. My fish look less stressed and almost ich free today, but I know there are tons of little bastards at the bottom of my tank waiting! You should definitely use that 30g to QT your fish, but I don't think that would hold them all, you have 3 angels you'd have to QT and whatever else is in the tank, might be too small. Maybe get another 20g tank or something? I am going to start to use a UV sterilizer tonight and lower my SG to 1.009 slowly, getting a refractometer. Hopefully in about 6 weeks, my fish will be ick free and ready to go back into the tank.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Anyone else have angels in a reef tank? I am curious to know what corals might be safe with larger angels. I know every fish is different, but I would like to know if some are most likely ok or not.

 

[maro1]

Angels and Corals and Ich

Angels and Corals and Ich

I have my Angels in a tank with mostly soft corals. They never touch them. However they ate every polyp they could find early on.

My pulsing sinularia are fine

Two weeks to go until all of my fish in QT from ich go back in the big display. It's hard waiting

Maro1:rollface:

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

What angels do you have again? Also what soft corals do you have? I mainly have soft corals, but a mix of everything. Here is my coral list
Crocea clam
Green Hammer
Pink Hammer
Leather Toadstool
Purple Colt
Neon Green Leather
Star polyps
Zoo's
Assorted polyp rocks
Acropora
Mushroom rock
Cabbage coral
Kenya tree

Soon I will be getting another green leather, red sea xenia, and monti cap.

I think the zoos and polyps will not fare too well. Everything is pretty small, mostly frag sized in a 30g. I may just keep a reef tank setup, that way I could have peaceful fish as well. I just thought it would be cool to have some corals in with my angels. Maybe when my stuff grows, I'll frag some leathers and colts to put in there.

I wish I had two weeks to go until I could put my fish in my display. I have at least 4-6 weeks left since I am starting my hypo now. Any more details on your setup? What are the dimensions of the tank? I was thinking about upgrading to a wooden tank in the future. They are pretty cheap, especially for the size. The problem would be the skimming and circulation though, on a 400g tank, must be some expensive stuff!

 

[maro1]

Angels I have

French
EMPEROR
Annularis
Blueface
Queen
Soft Corals, mushrooms, leathers, sinularias,Finger,colts. anemones(rose) and squamosa, deras clams

I am pretty much maxed on corals since the fish are the focus
Mushrooms would cover everything if I let them.

I can barely wait the two weeks left. Everday I have to fight the temptation.

Maro1:rollface: