personifer question
- Thread starter Chicago
- Start date
rmougey
Chair, MACNA 2014
Juveniles do not have as much color as adults do. My experience is that these fish develop their colors much later as they mature. Of course, you may have a female. Females do not have the deep blue pattern in the face that males do.
In either case, they are beautiful fish.
-Rob
In either case, they are beautiful fish.
-Rob
Rondelet
New member
Can you post a picture of the fish you're referring to?
Juveniles start off with a black face, which then fades to blue with yellow dots. I'm not sure about male/female dimorphism. First, make sure you're looking at a Personifer (C. personifer) rather than a Yellowtail (C. meredithi). I have what I believe is a Yellowtail, but it was originally sold to me as a Personifer. There is definitely some confusion about telling the two apart. I've posted a picture of mine in my picture gallery if you want to have look. I have no idea if it's a male or female. The picture was taken when the fish was about 3" long. Since then it has grown somewhat (not quite an inch) as it eats like a maniac. I have a more recent image - and it looks as if the blue is just starting to come on the face around the eyes. I will post that picture when I have a moment. My understanding is that the blue face/yellow dots will start to come in as the fish hits the 4' mark, at which point differences between the two species start to become apparent. I also just a looked in Scott Michael's book and he doesn't note any sexual dimorphism, but does not some geographical colour variations.
Juveniles start off with a black face, which then fades to blue with yellow dots. I'm not sure about male/female dimorphism. First, make sure you're looking at a Personifer (C. personifer) rather than a Yellowtail (C. meredithi). I have what I believe is a Yellowtail, but it was originally sold to me as a Personifer. There is definitely some confusion about telling the two apart. I've posted a picture of mine in my picture gallery if you want to have look. I have no idea if it's a male or female. The picture was taken when the fish was about 3" long. Since then it has grown somewhat (not quite an inch) as it eats like a maniac. I have a more recent image - and it looks as if the blue is just starting to come on the face around the eyes. I will post that picture when I have a moment. My understanding is that the blue face/yellow dots will start to come in as the fish hits the 4' mark, at which point differences between the two species start to become apparent. I also just a looked in Scott Michael's book and he doesn't note any sexual dimorphism, but does not some geographical colour variations.
Last edited:
Chicago
New member
Will do .. charging the battery for camera. mine has the full yellow tail.. also sold as a personifer but actually not... c.meridithi.
it is actually about 4 inches.. the white is not across the whole body yet.. starts at top and goes to just about undetr the eyes..
i understand male or female very is lenght a little.. one is a little longer.. so i read somewhere.
thanks
it is actually about 4 inches.. the white is not across the whole body yet.. starts at top and goes to just about undetr the eyes..
i understand male or female very is lenght a little.. one is a little longer.. so i read somewhere.
thanks
Rondelet
New member
Post a picture when you have moment. There are not very many (posted), so the additional reference would be good. My understanding is that the black band in the caudal comes in with age (size?) as with the other adult coloration that demarcates the true Personifers from Yellowtails. Eitherway, they are both great looking fish when adults!
Meredithi keep a full yellow tail. Personifier never have a full yellow tail.
It is generally a mute point, however, as almost without exception all fish labeled Personifier in the states are Meredithi. Thats a good thing as Meredithi adapt better, are less aggresive, are prettier (IMO) and best of all, are smaller at max 9 inches versus well over a foot.
I don't believe that there is much being collected in the true Personifier ranges.
It is generally a mute point, however, as almost without exception all fish labeled Personifier in the states are Meredithi. Thats a good thing as Meredithi adapt better, are less aggresive, are prettier (IMO) and best of all, are smaller at max 9 inches versus well over a foot.
I don't believe that there is much being collected in the true Personifier ranges.
Re: personifer question
To answer your original question, juveniles and full grown females have much less purple. It is almost kind of a grey/purple color.
I know of one person locally who bought a 4-5 inch specimen that was kept for about two years that never changed into the male coloration. It stayed fairly ugly.
I just recently saw a male meredithi that came in as a special order. It was beautiful. The yellow dots were very pronounced in the face and the demarcation lines between colors were fantastic. If I could be assured that I could get one like that I would purchase it in a second. It was only about 6 inches.
The gentleman also received a male scribbled angel in the same shipment. It also was beautiful. It would have been a hard decision to choose between the two.
To answer your original question, juveniles and full grown females have much less purple. It is almost kind of a grey/purple color.
I know of one person locally who bought a 4-5 inch specimen that was kept for about two years that never changed into the male coloration. It stayed fairly ugly.
I just recently saw a male meredithi that came in as a special order. It was beautiful. The yellow dots were very pronounced in the face and the demarcation lines between colors were fantastic. If I could be assured that I could get one like that I would purchase it in a second. It was only about 6 inches.
The gentleman also received a male scribbled angel in the same shipment. It also was beautiful. It would have been a hard decision to choose between the two.
The steven liu
New member
Yeah, I work in a LFS and I know that our supplier sold us what is supposedly a personifer but is in reality a meridithi. These two has very similar appearance and behavior but are distinguishly two different species. So just let everyone know be careful what you see is not definately what is labeled. I didn't discovered the error until the order arrived and we usually don't bother to complain to the supplier because not every customer is expert enough to call out the differences of these two species. However I do make an effort to label it right when I can.
Kahuna Tuna
Active member
This has been my understanding as well, it's just about impossible to get a true presonifer in the states. I love the Meredithi tho..... What a great looking fish. From what I understand the males are the ones with the full on blue face mask which is supposed to be much more pronounced that the females face. I would love to get a mated pair of these fish.
Rondelet
New member
Re: Re: personifer question
Re: Re: personifer question
Redfish:
This is a interesting observation. Mines in the 3-4 inch size range and doesn't have the blue face/yellow dots pattern yet. I'm really hoping that in time it will come in. It would be interesting to see if the colour variation is a related to sex, geography or husbandry. Looking in Scott Michael's book it's hard to tell what's going on as he shows several geographical variants (in the case of C. meredithi), but what also look to be different colour variants C. personsifer that, presumably, came from the same region/area. Makes me wonder about sexual dimorphism, but this is not specifically noted in his book. Could also just be genetics - and normal colour variation. Anyone more familiar with the primary literature or have any further comment on this?
I always thought the age, rather than size was more important where colour change in large angels was concerned. I have read that some people have keep large Pomacanthids that never took on bright adult coloration in captivity when acquired as juveniles. While I think husbandry is a factor, I also think it, and nutrition in particular, has improved a lot over the years. In the case of my Yellowtail, I guess time will tell!
Chicago:
Nice picture. But it's a little small, can you post a larger image?
I would be very interested in any other images people would care to post on Personifers/Yellowtails!
Re: Re: personifer question
Redfish:
This is a interesting observation. Mines in the 3-4 inch size range and doesn't have the blue face/yellow dots pattern yet. I'm really hoping that in time it will come in. It would be interesting to see if the colour variation is a related to sex, geography or husbandry. Looking in Scott Michael's book it's hard to tell what's going on as he shows several geographical variants (in the case of C. meredithi), but what also look to be different colour variants C. personsifer that, presumably, came from the same region/area. Makes me wonder about sexual dimorphism, but this is not specifically noted in his book. Could also just be genetics - and normal colour variation. Anyone more familiar with the primary literature or have any further comment on this?
I always thought the age, rather than size was more important where colour change in large angels was concerned. I have read that some people have keep large Pomacanthids that never took on bright adult coloration in captivity when acquired as juveniles. While I think husbandry is a factor, I also think it, and nutrition in particular, has improved a lot over the years. In the case of my Yellowtail, I guess time will tell!
Chicago:
Nice picture. But it's a little small, can you post a larger image?
I would be very interested in any other images people would care to post on Personifers/Yellowtails!
Chicago
New member
forgot to add .. this is not a pic of my personifer.. i will post him tonight. i need to give credti to the vedor.. marine depot. sorry i was rushed when i posted it.
i certianly hope that the colors get brighter..better with age. the one i have does not have bright yellow purple in the face.. female perhaps?
he is eating though
i certianly hope that the colors get brighter..better with age. the one i have does not have bright yellow purple in the face.. female perhaps?
he is eating though
I think it is fairly well established that the males have the pretty bright blue face with yellow dots. The question is whether or not the females and juveniles will transition to males. From my experience, it doesn't look good. It could be too early to tell though with a 4-5" fish. It may need to get bigger.
The juveniles definitely have a very washed out grey/blue face when they first transition, so you could still be looking at juveniles.
The juveniles definitely have a very washed out grey/blue face when they first transition, so you could still be looking at juveniles.
