Phosban during cycle? Anybody want to be Mikey?

[Jk5]

which is the meaning of the word "maduration"?

is maduration possible without inorganic phosphorous (po4)?

How many people have suffered a dinoflagellates pest after using strong adsorbers (aluminium, GFO and so)?

My opinion is you must drive careful the po4 export or you can rise phytoplanktonic blooms of those elements who didnt need po4 and can thrive on organic matter and organic phosphorous.
Benefical bacteria and phyto need a minimal amount of po4.
If you go so far with po4 export another harmfull phyto like dinos will take the aquarium control.



IMO like m2434

I have actually been playing with this a bit. On my 20g, I ran the GFO from day 1. The issue I 've noticed is that, if I stop running GFO, the algae appears in force with a day or so.

My assumption was that the P did not increase that dramatically, all of a sudden when the GFO was removed. Instead, I believe, some micro-algae may demand more N and Fe than P. In this case, when running GFO, the N and Fe rise slightly, because P is limited and N and Fe are therefore not as readily consumed. Because, these algae do not require much P, the slight increase is sufficient for them to utilize the now increased N and Fe. (Note inorganic N was not detectable on a test kit, but I'm not using anything particularly accurate such as a photometer, I don't test for Fe and there could be another nutrient I'm not accounting for – I'm not implying N and Fe are the only limiting nutrients, they are just examples)

My thought was that maybe it's more beneficial to allow nutrients export in a more balanced ratio. So, a few weeks ago, I removed the GFO and did not replace it. It took a while, but the algae has essentially disappeared. So, other organisms and my cheato have likely taken over. So, I think my theory could be correct, but there are thousands of other possibilities (Of course leaching of phosphates from the rocks is another) and I'm curious to hear what others think. Is the algae occurrence due to an unbalanced nutrient ratio? Is it better to rely on other means of export such as cheato from day 1?

This is an interesting topic, I'm glad someone brought it up. Also, if there is a nutrient balance issue, I think this also ties into the question of how often and for what duration, should GFO be run under normal circumstances?

 

[tmz]

Living things need organic carbon(C) , organic nitrogen (N)and phosphate(P). They use them in proportions broadly approximating (vary by organism) 106 C:16N :1 P(redfield ratio). Autotrops use photosynthesis to make organic carbon ( eg sugars) from CO2 and light ; heterotrophs like denitrifying bacteria can't make it so they consume it as organic material.
Surface ocean waters hold only about .005ppm PO4, So you can see the chance for a limiting PO4 factor in a rock curing bin with decaying matter containing CNP is extremely remote.

However,stripping PO4 to true 0 with an adsorbent(gfo, etc) or precipitant(lanthanum chloride) could limit bacteria and other organisms leaving excess unconsumed N and C.

 

[Jk5]

IMO than tmz.

could you start exporting po4? Yes.
But if you go very far you will have problems.
Harmful blooms are not all dued by high amounts of nutrients.
There are blooms dued for the limitation of one or more nutrients.
Other blooms are dued to unbalanced nutrients (and you could have low nutrients).
The best is exporting nutrients in a balanced way and not falling in the limitation (true 0) of any nutrient.
A minimal and balanced amount of nutrients is a warranty of life for your tank.

 

[psykobowler]

I would setup all the reactors for carbon, gfo and/or biopellet first and go the bacteria approach. Prodibio and vodka and skim that bacteria carrying both nitrate and phosphate. I think gfo should be used later for maintaining low phosphates but not the ultimate solution. The bacterial filtration needs to get established first.

 

[CLINTOS]

Just a bucket, air stone, air pump,established water with lots of rock's and new aragonite. with a few lbs of seeded L.R/aragonite from a an established tank. work's great imo and only take 5 week's in the dark with large weekly water changes from a mixture of NSW and established system water

 

[jtparsons]

I can be Mikey

I can be Mikey

Im new to reef keeping, but not aquarium keeping and have done my reading. Im on day 10 of my setup running GFO from minute 1. My basic setup is.
-70gal total system volume
-150W MH and 100W actinic 6hour light cycle
-Phosban reactor BRS
-AC reactor BRS
-hydor 400 skimmer
-fuge with medium ball of chaeto under strong PC lighting running 24/7
-40lbs good Figi rock about 50% cured (still had alot of gunk some living some dead/didnt rinse)

Test everything with Elos and Salifert, but I am at work so dont have my log book, but will post params if people are interested. I have seen nothing to indicate a cycle at this point. Have not yet had a detectable level of Ammonia or Nitrite, but have had about 2-5ppm nitrate since day 3(Yes Im using RO/DI). Didnt expect this, but it still may happen. No visible algae of any kind in the tank that I can detect. Live rock has come to life with tunicates, feather dusters etc.

During my research for this tank I came to the idea that the normally prescribed methods for cycling a tank or inducing a cycle might be unessisary. The huge peaks and valleys in the nitrogen cycle and associated one after the other algae blooms seems like a hard way to go about it. Im trying to slow down the process, and let the bacterial colonies slowely build up as I carefully and SLOWELY add nutrient sources. I descided on this method when reading threads about people using LR from Tampa Bay live rock company. They do large frequent water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite down so they could save the life they had on their rock. Well see how things progress this is my first reef tank and Im doing everything based on my reading with no practical experience.
Params that I can remember
SG-1.026 refractometer
PH-7.95+/- salifert and calibrated probe
phosphate-undetectable
ammonia-undetectable
nitrite-undetectable
nitrate- 2-5ppm I think? log book is at home
alk, cal, mag are good according to liturature but cant remember values will post later if people are interested
I use Salinity by Seachem for salt and did 5gal water changes(ro/di) every day until 2 days ago

Hopefully my tank can help give you and others some usefull data on GFO on start-up. Im a noob posting in the advanced section sorry about that.