Photometer

[layer3switchguy]

Folks,

Is anyone aware of or have any experience with any saltwater based electronic water testing? I'm thinking of purchasing one for club use. Ideally something that does:

CA
dKH
No3
MG

Many of us in the club would prefer the accuracy of testing with a photometer as opposed to color change kits like Elos, but not sure whats available at a price point under say 1K that is reliable and accurate.

Any advice is certainly appreciated.

Cheers,
L3

 

[Billybeau1]

Well, Calcium has a few electronic monitors on the market. Pinpoint comes to mind but I'm sure there are others.

There is no electronic test kit for alkalinity. I like Salifert for testing that.

They do have nitrate monitors but I honestly can't tell you how well they work. I like Salifert for low level testing and API for high level testing.

No magnesium electronic instrument that I know of. If your club has the bucks, you may look into the Hach General Hardness test kit for seawater. This kit measures the total hardness of your water. Then you just subtract the calcium number and the rest is magnesium.

 

[layer3switchguy]

Thanks Billybeau1! One of the issues some of the members have is matching colors on some of the tests, so we were looking for a way around that. We have mostly Elos and Salifert, and we usually get multiple opinions on color! Are you aware of any reliable and accurate kits that have an easier to read color change?

Would appreciate any input you might have.

Cheers,
L3

 

[Billybeau1]

I think using test kits takes practice. Once you get familiar with the color change, it is pretty painless. Usually background light is the key to titration type kits. Natural light over your shoulder seems to work the best for me.

I have no problem seeing the color change in Salifert kits. Or Elos for that matter. It just takes practice.

I've tested a lot of hobby grade kits and Salifert and Elos are on the top of the list IMO.

 

[layer3switchguy]

Great thanks. Saw your occupation as supervisor of locomotives. I'm a big train buff. Are you at Beech Grove?

 

[Boomer]

CA ==> Will not work with any photometer in seawater
dKH==> There is not such electronic tester
No3==> Will work but will give the wrong readings
MG==>Will not work with any photometer in seawater

 

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15640398#post15640398 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by layer3switchguy
Great thanks. Saw your occupation as supervisor of locomotives. I'm a big train buff. Are you at Beech Grove?

:lol:

It is funny you said that as I spent 22 years with Amtrak and one of our overhaul shops is in Beech Grove. I've been there many times but I worked out of Chicago at the 14th/16th Street facilities.

I now work for the Canadian National RR at the former Illinois Central Facility in Homewood, Il.

 

[layer3switchguy]

Awesome! I took a guess on Beech Grove when I saw you lived in Indiana. I'm a big "motor" guy as opposed to engines, and have a special place in my heart for the GG1 and the original metroliners.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15640602#post15640602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
:lol:

It is funny you said that as I spent 22 years with Amtrak and one of our overhaul shops is in Beech Grove. I've been there many times but I worked out of Chicago at the 14th/16th Street facilities.

I now work for the Canadian National RR at the former Illinois Central Facility in Homewood, Il.

 

[eggiel]

I think you ll be good with elos for MG,ALK and Calcium

Elos Mag is 2 diffrent test and subtract and multiply result

Elos Calcium is tritation from pink to blue wich is a huge difference in color that you wont miss

Elos Alk also tritation from magent to yellow

No3 Lamotte i think is a good one plus you get refills cheap

Po4 Hanna Potometer

 

[richardg6409]

Boomer

I was thinking of getting one of the Hanna multi photometers, but you have said that calcium, magnesium and nitrate will not work. I was wondering about the reason, can you elaborate? I would have thought that they make these instruments for the aquaculture industry.

Most of the LFS here have the Hanna Phosphate meter. Seems to be pretty accurate.

What would you recommend for Potassium?

Thanks

 

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15640650#post15640650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by layer3switchguy
Awesome! I took a guess on Beech Grove when I saw you lived in Indiana. I'm a big "motor" guy as opposed to engines, and have a special place in my heart for the GG1 and the original metroliners.

I've actually been on a GG1. What an awesome machine. I also worked in Wash D.C. for about three years. Serviced AEM-7's and the big GE electrics. What was it an E - (forgot). We had overhead catenary between Wash and New Haven Ct. back in those days. Once the southbounds got to D.C., we had to take the electrics off and put on diesels to continue south. Also got a taste of one of the first high speed trains back in the 90's.

 

[Boomer]

In various types of measurement there are various inference factors. Seawater is the worst when it comes to ions like Ca++ and Mg++ for multimeters/spectros'. You have to have very low Ca++ to get a proper Mg++ and vice-versa. With Ca++ @ 400 and Mg ++ @ 1350 it will not work. You can get the NO3- to work but you have to make or get a seawater std that has a KNOWN level for NO3- @ x Salinity. HACH asked me to do this long ago and I said fine, just send me the meter. They said NO you have to buy the meter. Guess what I said :lol:

For testing for phosphate it is not an issue as there is no "seawater' interference to worry about. Same for Silica, Copper and Iron. I'm not sure about K+. There is only one kit for K+ by the Zeovit people.

I would have thought that they make these instruments for the aquaculture industry.

Not even The water/waste-water industry. That is why most of these kits have to meet EPA and other water quality testing stds for acceptance. We are a pea in a pod. ALL are directed ONLY to Fresh Water use. Seawater is a different beast. For FW they all work great and for many, many parameters.

 

[Boomer]

GG1 and the original metroliners

No, no, no, NO !!

Those are not REAL trains REAL trains are like the 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-8-4 Steamers I have to teach you kids everything

 

[richardg6409]

Boomer

Thanks for the response. Makes sense now (who would know I was once a biochemistry major--have not used it for 25 years)

I would have sent you the meter if I was hach....

 

[layer3switchguy]

AEM7.... I think you guys called them toasters right? The big GE electrics were the E60's. Billed as the G's replacement, but never lived up to their promise... Amtrak finally got wire strung up to Boston, funny thing is, the trip is only 30 minutes faster than the New Haven and PC did it 50 years ago...

Oh and Boomer does have a good point!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15640815#post15640815 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I've actually been on a GG1. What an awesome machine. I also worked in Wash D.C. for about three years. Serviced AEM-7's and the big GE electrics. What was it an E - (forgot). We had overhead catenary between Wash and New Haven Ct. back in those days. Once the southbounds got to D.C., we had to take the electrics off and put on diesels to continue south. Also got a taste of one of the first high speed trains back in the 90's.

 

[layer3switchguy]

AEM7.... I think you guys called them toasters right? The big GE electrics were the E60's. Billed as the G's replacement, but never lived up to their promise... Amtrak finally got wire strung up to Boston, funny thing is, the trip is only 30 minutes faster than the New Haven and PC did it 50 years ago...

Oh and Boomer does have a good point!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15640815#post15640815 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I've actually been on a GG1. What an awesome machine. I also worked in Wash D.C. for about three years. Serviced AEM-7's and the big GE electrics. What was it an E - (forgot). We had overhead catenary between Wash and New Haven Ct. back in those days. Once the southbounds got to D.C., we had to take the electrics off and put on diesels to continue south. Also got a taste of one of the first high speed trains back in the 90's.

 

[tmz]

I like the hanah photometer for phosphate. It does , have a +/- .04ppm accuracy rating.

Pinpoint is nice for ph and salinity.

For the rest of it I use Salifert test kits and like them.

 

[tmz]

Hi Boomer, Don't know much about real trains. I do have a nice lionel set circa 1948. it was one of my earliest Christmass presents. I think my Dad actually bought it for himself since I was only two.

 

[Boomer]

I do have a nice lionel set circa 1948

Me too and do you have a clue what these are worth now :lol:


layer3switchguy

There is the PinPoint Nitrate monitor. I forgot about that one It looks like Lou has got it to work fairly well in seawater.

 

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15643433#post15643433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
There is the PinPoint Nitrate monitor. I forgot about that one It looks like Lou has got it to work fairly well in seawater.

You should pay more attention to my posts Boomer. :lol: I mentioned the electronic nitrate monitor. Just wasn't sure how well it worked.

And as far as real trains, The GG1 was the workhorse of the electrics on the East coast in the old days.

switchguy, yes, now I remember..... it was the E60. What a powerful machine. I have some pictures somewhere. I'll see if I can post them. High maintenance but a powerful machine none the less. And yes, I knew they extended the electric up to Bean town. It was a plan which was a long time in the making.

Boomer, you show your age with train comments like that. :lol: