Physics Majors Respond

coralfragger101

Gone Postal
OK, we all know that the build up of CO2 in a closed up house can drive down the ph of our tanks. I live in S. FL. where we don't get much opportunity to open the windows and air out the house.

I don't really want to pay $1,000 for an air exchanger.

How much good would it do to vent the skimmer to outside air?
And more imortantly is there anything I need to consider in doing this? It would be about a 25' run and I planned on oversizing the pipe that goes from the skimmer to the outside in case the length of tubing would add any kind of back pressure on the whole set up.

Anything else I need to think about? or is this even worth it?
 
chuck its the second hand smoke that is killing it lol

use the ozone react you built isnt it doing the job, call ya later
 
The ozone reactor did not work out. Not sure why. I unplugged it and tossed it on my junk pile for an eventual garage sale.

Carlos: You say you didn't notice that much of a difference? Meaning there was some? I'm not looking for anything tremendous.
 
It went from 7.8 to 8.0. Ive always thought about adding a fresh air intake to the return box of the a.c since mine is located next to and exterior wall. Like that when the a.c is on it also pulls fresh air from out side.
 
I do not believe that this would help.

If fact, I find it extremely hard to believe that there is a significant enough CO2 build up in our houses that would cause this problem and not effect our health. I do not believe anyone of us has a house that is sealed up that tight and is that energy efficient. We are constantly opening and closing doors bringing new air into our houses. Scuttle holes to our attics are hardly air tight and would allow for air exchange.

Just my thinking and my opinion. I am not a physicist but I do have a couple of science degrees.
 
Think what you want but I do know for a fact that if I open my doors and windows that my ph increases by a couple of tenths AT LEAST.

Carlos also agrees that he can get a .2 increase doing something like this.

Since I'm at 8.0 now it might just be the ticket. I'd love to be running 8.2 consistantly.

I'm running a temp set up with just a tube laying on the floor to the front door since air is being blown in the front door now.

DAMN - that won't tell me if it was the tube or just the room being refreshed.

Back to the drawing board.
 
I think you got other issues that are not caused by your house. You have a buffering issue that is temporarily being corrected by dilution.

I don't recall seeing any info that says that a tank always maintains the same exact pH level 24/7. Some fluctuations are normal and as I understand it diurnal.

Personally, I think that venting a tank's air supply to the outside is a waste of time and money. I'd hate to have to account for exhaust fumes, pesticide fumes, smoke for the occasional forest fire, etc.
 
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My tank generally runs between 7.9 and 8.1. I attribute this to the fact that I'm running a CA reactor which has a tendency to lower the ph.

I'd be happy with a swing of 8 to 8.2 or better yet 8.1 to 8.3 but getting there lies the problem.

Since I've already started this "test", I might as well finish it. I've got the air tube from my skimmer to the front jalousy door. I cracked the vents enough to get the tube out. I then taped shut all the open vents except for my tube.

We'll see how high my ph goes today and then analize it from there.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14843934#post14843934 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lpsluver
(snip)

Personally, I think that venting a tank's air supply to the outside is a waste of time and money. I'd hate to have to account for exhaust fumes, pesticide fumes, smoke for the occasional forest fire, etc.

You think those things don't get inside your house already?
 
Don't you have all your equipment in that small room behind you tank?
Have you tried leaving that door open to vent into the rest of the house? Is there a duct from the ac blowing in there?
 
You must have been here before.

Yes, I have a fishroom behind the tank. I leave that door open ALL day long. I only close it at night to hide the light from the fuge so we can sleep (especially since I upgraded my fuge light to a 4 bulb T5 sunblaze unit)

And yes - when I created this room I cut a vent into an existing AC duct so that I do have and AC duct blowing cold air into this room.

I ALSO - cut another hole in the ceiling and bought a powerful bathroom exhaust fan (a quiet one too). This one simply blows air inside the wall units so not sure how much good it does but figure that some good was better than no good.

You have a good memory.
 
Chuck, interesting question and here's my recent data because I'm struggling with the EXACT same issues. I've read Randy Holmes Farley, extensively in the Chem forum. His supposition (and I trust him -- he's ungodly smart) is that ALL PH issues are caused from C02 build up if your Alk numbers are correct.

My specific situation was that I was seeing pH as low as 7.8 overnight (!!) and barely 8 during the day. You all may remember we had several beautiful days last week (the last cool ones of the year probably) and so I threw open all the windows in the house. Within hours my pH was 8.3! I hadn't supplemented anything, nor made any other modifications. Yes, it still dropped a bit overnight (8.15ish) but during the day, bam, right back up.

It warmed back up and I closed the windows, right back down. As an experiment I ran a piece of 1/4" ice-maker tubing to the window across the room and noted after 24 hours the pH had been affected perhaps .05 units -- not significant enough.

What I've been doing the last three nights is opening a window in my living room when I go to bed (when the outside temp is <78) and my pH has been higher, though not 8.3, because the house is closed all day with two adults and four children in it all day long, creating C02.

My understanding of it is this:

#1 O2 saturation and CO2 levels are not directly related. You can be O2 saturated and still have elevated CO2. The skimmer outside air intake may help with O2 sat but this will not directly drive off CO2.

#2 In home CO2 levels will reach equilibrium with your tank water. Atmospheric CO2 is currently 387 PPM (0.0387%). I've got to believe that respiration for humans in a closed space can easily drive that number to a magnitude higher. In fact, according to the Wisconsin Department of Health (the first resource I found but you can see others on Google):

The levels of CO2 in the air and potential health problems are:

* 250 - 350 ppm â€"œ background (normal) outdoor air level
* 350- 1,000 ppm - typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange.
* 1,000 â€"œ 2,000 ppm - level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
* 2,000 â€"œ 5,000 ppm â€"œ level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
* >5,000 ppm â€"œ Exposure may lead to serious oxygen deprivation resulting in permanent brain damage, coma and even death.

So you could have 1000 PPM CO2 and still be "typical" -- which means you wouldn't know or feel it -- but your tank will.

I'm considering having an outside vent put into my AC closet, too -- I think the small drop in efficiency for the AC will be worth it to have more fresh air.

Hope this helps,

Mark
 
hmm.

I stand corrected, I guess. My house my be less than 1,000. Anyway, all of my coral and fish are fine , extended and growing...

I'll tag along just to see how it goes and to learn...
 
I have my tank next to an exterior wall so the run of airline tubing was minimal. Also I have an etss skimmer so i am not using that small 1/4" icemaker tubing.
 
Chuck that may help the issue, and I have considered my self, however what makes me fear doing this is the fact that I have no control over the environment outside my house and if my neighbor decides to spray for bugs and the insecticide is sucked in by the skimmer then it will be terrible.
I will never forget the time that my roommate was using my fishnet with out my knowledge to catch mosquitos and kill them with insecticide, as moronic as this sounds it is a true story, one day I had the need to catch some debris in the tank and used that net in the tank, within minutes the fishes started dying one by one, needless to say I was in shock when I found out why this happened.
 
I loved the idea of running the filtration and venting outside until one day my neighbor complained to Miami-Dade Mosquito Control about too many mosquitos in our neighborhood, they sprayed and all the fish in my fresh water pond died.
Now I wonder, what if I had my filtration or skimmer vented outside?
 
I would guess that each time you open and close a door, you are replacing good fresh air with bad CO2 air in a day that you won't make a difference anyway.

If you don't believe that, then open the windows across the room from each other for 10 minutes a week.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845022#post14845022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by laud
I would guess that each time you open and close a door, you are replacing good fresh air with bad CO2 air in a day that you won't make a difference anyway.

If you don't believe that, then open the windows across the room from each other for 10 minutes a week.

Let's think in terms of volume. 2000 square foot house, 8 foot ceilings, that's 16,000 cubic feet of air in the house. I doubt that 16k ft of air are rushing thru the door when you open it :)

If you don't believe the data, you're welcome to observe it in my home. I'm thinking seriously about ordering a cheap CO2 meter, just for kicks, to see what the CO2 rises to when the house is closed up for several days.
 
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