Phytoplankton

[Pandagobyguy]

I am trying to start a phytoculture (rotifers also but later) because my clowns are pretty close to releasing their first clutch.

Anyway i am looking for the easiest cheapest form of culture.

One large gallon jug with an air stone so far seems the most simple.

I have heard two things that i am questioning as true:

1. Using all purpose miraclegro. I have heard this works but upon reading ingredient list i found it contains .05% water soluble copper. Will this be a danger to my inverts?

2. I also heard that any lighting will work (as in a household lightbulb). Is this also true?

Thanks for any help in advance! Post your phyto setups if you can!

 

[sde1500]

Use f/2 from Florida aqua farms. It's literally designed for what phyto needs. My neglected setup crashed and will be restarted shortly but here is an older pic of it.

 

[Pandagobyguy]

Also i understand that most buy a starter culture. I am trying a quick experiment to see if i can culture my tanks already present phyto...

In freshwater, you can take a closed jar and scoop up water (from anywhere). It goes through a month or two of random dominant species however, IT ALWAYS CRASHES. This results in all heterotrophs dying. Then you give it a week or so and the only remaining species is chlamydamonas. I have a culture of it i use to seed my planted tank. I got it using the above method^. (Also i have a microscope so i can confirm presence or absence of microorganisms).

I have already begun testing this with a closed mason jar with a small amount of miraclegro and about 1/4th full of my tanks water.

In a week or so i will post some pictures of a few wet slides. I will also try to log my progress in case this actually does work (then everyone can save money on culture) [granted its like $6 vs. A month or two time but wtv lol]

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[Pandagobyguy]

Use f/2 from Florida aqua farms. It's literally designed for what phyto needs. My neglected setup crashed and will be restarted shortly but here is an older pic of it.

Wow very nice setup. Have you tried any other food sources?
I have heard about f2 and in the quantities i plan on using it would probably be super cheap.
Is there any method for creating homemade phyto food? (I realize it adds unnecessary complexity but for me thats really the fun part of reefing)

 

[sde1500]

I believe you run the risk of other little critters getting in the culture as well. And you could end up with a culture of something you don't want. Better to buy a starter purely of the phyto you want than guessing.

I have not tried phyto food, but FAF sells liquid and dry in bulk ingredients. So you could mix it all yourself based on their measurments. Bout as DIY as I'd get.

 

[Pandagobyguy]

I believe you run the risk of other little critters getting in the culture as well. And you could end up with a culture of something you don't want. Better to buy a starter purely of the phyto you want than guessing.

I have not tried phyto food, but FAF sells liquid and dry in bulk ingredients. So you could mix it all yourself based on their measurments. Bout as DIY as I'd get.

You are definitely right. I am definitely doing things the hard way (wrong way) but I've got time and boredom so oh well

Even with the chlamydomonas, diatoms and a specific type of paramecium that is symbiotic still exist in the sample.

Speaking of "random crap" in my sample

I did a quick slide but i didn't have cover slides so had to use two slides on top of each other. It definitely damaged some of the organisms.
Pics next post

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[Pandagobyguy]

Ok so my experience is mostly with fresh water so ID's are questionable at best:

1. Some kind of cocconeis diatom
2. The diatom with the lines on the ends is decently quick and i believe it is species cylindrotheca (possibly urosolenia). The other guy on the top right i think is some kind of ctenophora species or peronia
3. I believe this is a broken diatom. Not sure if genus actinocyclus or eupodiscus (more lilely eupo)
4. this caltrop looking thing i have no idea..... cool though
5. Small shells appeared throughout the slide
6. The box diatom grouped in three is probably tabularia
7. This one is actually green (not diatom brown). Looks like paramecium bursaria but that is only freshwater
8. I squished him with the second slide but damn it was probably cool. (Also lets be honest... it looks pretty funny too)

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[Zephrant]

What magnification are you using for those pictures?

 

[Pandagobyguy]

What magnification are you using for those pictures?

10x objective 10x lens. 100x total

Really cheap microscope (100 on amazon lol). So its got pretty shotty resolution. Light dimmer (isnt that called a condenser or something?) Barely functions. It can barely see things in 40x and oil immersion lens is totally useless (and the oil was expensive damnit).

But hey it was cheap and i can see stuff [emoji28]

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[themummra]

The caltrop is a sponge spicule, you can see them all over this sponge slide I made recently. They are used for protection and are one of the key morphological traits in identifying sponge species.

 

[Pandagobyguy]

The caltrop is a sponge spicule, you can see them all over this sponge slide I made recently. They are used for protection and are one of the key morphological traits in identifying sponge species.

You are awesome! Cool! I have no visible sponges in tank. Wonder if i can figure out what species it is... lol got some googling to do!

I assume there are microscopic sponges? Do some float in the water column or are they all attached to substrate? I have a ton of this one type with no noticeable variation. Seems like it has dominated my tank.

Thanks!

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[themummra]

You are awesome! Cool! I have no visible sponges in tank. Wonder if i can figure out what species it is... lol got some googling to do!

I assume there are microscopic sponges? Do some float in the water column or are they all attached to substrate? I have a ton of this one type with no noticeable variation. Seems like it has dominated my tank.

Thanks!

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Its most likely from a sycon sponge, common name pineapple sponge.

And all Porifera (Sponges) are sessile so they will be attached to a substrate.

 

[Pandagobyguy]

Its most likely from a sycon sponge, common name pineapple sponge.

And all Porifera (Sponges) are sessile so they will be attached to a substrate.

Thanks for the ID's mumm!

I took a little bit to look at another slide.

The trophic system definitely us fluctuating!

So observations of sample by eye:
The water color has not changed but now there are small clear particles floating everywhere. At the bottom there is a large quantity of what effectively looks like sand (post wet slide i think these are diatom shells). Some small specs of green also rest at the bottom (probably algae that was tranferred?

Interesting to see it change... it was perfectly clear. Ro/di water, fertilizer and a tablespoon of tank water (from my turf scrubber runoff)

Slide:
I now no longer see any diatoms
There seem to be two dominating species
1. Buzzing little guys (my microscope is failing me). Hoping these are some kind of photosynthetic org. But they exhibit some feeding behaviours around "junk" materials in the sample
2. These guys are SUPER fast. The video is the slowest one i found. Assuming for now that given their speed and behavior they are predatory and eating the smaller species.
No idea on id this time. The second one turns itself while swimming similar to phacus in fresh.

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[Pandagobyguy]

*Double post*

 

[Pandagobyguy]

Hmm not sure how to add video but here's a screen cap of the second one. Seems similar to paramecium in fresh.

If i could figure video out you would see that the black dots in the first pic are all buzzing around the debris and the "paramecium thing" is swimming around the debris as if hunting the dots.

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[Pandagobyguy]

Ok so update. Jar of over fertilized sealed tank water ended up with not much activity.

I have started a second method. This time i am modeling the fresh water method for culturing infusoria. I have done both a fresh and salt jar and the results have honestly surprised me.

The jars were made with spinach leaves and celery. i poured in boiling water (to blanch and sanitize) and waited for cooling. Then filled the rest with tank water from either fresh or salt tank.

It has been several weeks. The obvious difference is in fresh, the veg matter decays RAPIDLY. Very rapidly. By week 1, biofilms formed and the fresh water was completely green. Week 2, the water turned legitimately brown and smelled horrible. Week 3 (end of it is today), water has cleared. Less smell, still biofilm.

As for salt, week 1, nothing. Week 2, biofilm formed. Week 3, water is becoming green but not as fast or as dark as in fresh.

Pics in next post>>>>

 

[Pandagobyguy]

The difference was much more drastic last week and that makes me wonder what about salt delays the decomposition...

(i have theories, like, perhaps salt acts as an inhibitor in microbial decomposition)

Will make a slide of both cultures tomorrow and post results.

 

[Pandagobyguy]

Also i dont know if anyone is interested but i ended just buying a florida ag farm tetraselmis disk and starting some "legit" phyto cultures.

On the left is a culture made with miracle-gro and my tanks saltwater (microwaved for 7 mins).
On the right, tap water mixed to 1.019 sg.
Behind is my initial culture using f2 fert. It is now my rotifer attempt.

The one on the right is darker but i started it with more phyto. Both styles seem to be equivalent in growth. Also miracle-gro seems just as effective as f2 fert as far as growing actual phyto.
I spoke to randy holmes farley on "another reefing site". He seems to think 5 ml of miracle-gro even dosed directly into dt would not do much. He said after multiple uses it may become an issue, but also added that WC will remove Cu and that it is non toxic when bound in phyto organism.

Also i have some other random jars of samples from fresh creeks with tons of micro stuff. got a good pop. Of freshwater ostracoda (seed shrimp) and a 10 g with brine shrimp in various stages of development, copes, flatworms (not red bugs or acro eaters. I bought flatworm exit to treat but havent used because ecosystem seems in balance and my mandarin finds them to be delicious. Also the toxin worries me more than there presence so far) and several other random things.

If you want me to throw anything on a slide, i'd be more than happy for the motivation! Lmk

The last photo is a close to adult brine from top of tank down (blurry sry). It is about 1/8th-3/16ths of an inch.

 

[LeJeune981]

I'm trying to start a little one gallon brine tank.. but not having any luck.. it has a few inches of crushed shells for substrate.. 2 little live rocks.. and a bubbler... but they all seem to die after a few days.. not sure why

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[Pandagobyguy]

I'm trying to start a little one gallon brine tank.. but not having any luck.. it has a few inches of crushed shells for substrate.. 2 little live rocks.. and a bubbler... but they all seem to die after a few days.. not sure why

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I have just been dumping unhatched eggs into the 10 g. I started by feeding it yeast dissolved in sugar water. Once my phyto culture got going i started feeding live phyto. I've heard spirulina powder also works well. I also throw in spare bits of food and i use my old tank water after WC to fill the brine tank.

one of the biggest factors I've noticed on brine density is specific gravity. I did some research on where my species comes from (it is the san fransico bay brand the latin name is like fransicana or something). It is grown in extremely high salt content water. It is actually grown in SF bay and the only other place is THE salt lake in UT. Obviously salt content is ridiculously high. I have noticed they seem to really prefer massive salt quantities.

Not sure its a solution but hopefully something i said is remotely useful lol. Lmk how it goes and Feel free to post pics!