pipefish or seahorses in your sump
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pledosophy
Active member
Still issues with temp, flow, feeding. I wouldn't dream of hooking up a seahorse tank to my reef. I try to hard to get my reef to thrive. As much as I love seahorses, they'd screw up my reef for sure.
If you want seahorses it would be cheaper IMO to just setup a seahorse tank. Seahorse tanks don't need all the bells and whistles that reefs do IME.
HTH
If you want seahorses it would be cheaper IMO to just setup a seahorse tank. Seahorse tanks don't need all the bells and whistles that reefs do IME.
HTH
what would be the issues of flow, temp and feeding?
you can alter the flow by turning back the sump pump, temp wouldnt it be the same as the main tank (mine is) and feeding... i can easly get to my sump?
just playing devils advocate here. just seeing why this can or cant not be done (or should/shouldnt be done)
you can alter the flow by turning back the sump pump, temp wouldnt it be the same as the main tank (mine is) and feeding... i can easly get to my sump?
just playing devils advocate here. just seeing why this can or cant not be done (or should/shouldnt be done)
rosebud161616
New member
The problem with temps is that seahorses require 68-74* temps. Most people are running their main tanks at a much higher temp.
Rosebud:
Where did you get the info on seahorse temp requirements? I have seen them and collected them in 80 degree plus waters. Mangroves in the FL keys are shallow, and thus warmer than even reefs.
So I would not be afraid of them on the basis of temperature.
Pipefish are found in many of the same habitats as seahorses.
Where did you get the info on seahorse temp requirements? I have seen them and collected them in 80 degree plus waters. Mangroves in the FL keys are shallow, and thus warmer than even reefs.
So I would not be afraid of them on the basis of temperature.
Pipefish are found in many of the same habitats as seahorses.
rosebud161616
New member
There have been studies that have found 74*is the magic number to help to stop the spread of disease among seahorses in aquariums. Yes out in the ocean they may be found in higher temps, but you have a much larger body of water which will help to reduce the spread of disease by dilution. In a small (in comparison to the ocean) tank, disease can quickly run rampant.
If you look back at previous disease issues you'll find much higher cases of illness in tanks running above 74*. That's why it's suggest to keep seahorses between 68-74*. Seahorses really don't change their behaviors until you start getting down below 68*. When a seahorse gets sick, the first advice always offered is to move the seahorse to a hospital tank and do everything possible to get the water down to 68* to slow the illness.
rosebud161616
New member
I personally don't have much experience with pipefish, but I believe they're so similar that it's the same case. Someone more experienced with them will hopefully be able to confirm that for you.
Now I am curious -
What other real analysis have been done to establish temperature as the culprit ?
Not arguing - just trying to understand...
I have an aquarium, full of fish and corals. ( anyone that can read will tell you I overstock terribly <G>) We have raised the average temperature on reef tanks during the last 10 years to an average that must be above 80*....
So- why does it not follow that if we have a higher fish to water volume ratio, and we have raised our temps....with no added disease issues (in fact most would agree that it has lessened their problems with illness) well - why the opposite with seahorses?
Maybe what I am trying to figure out is why sea horses immune response is completely opposite to most of its other tropical temperature neighbors?
Please explain - I am thinking about another tank for the Mrs. - and she loves seahorse and pipefish....
T
What other real analysis have been done to establish temperature as the culprit ?
Not arguing - just trying to understand...
I have an aquarium, full of fish and corals. ( anyone that can read will tell you I overstock terribly <G>) We have raised the average temperature on reef tanks during the last 10 years to an average that must be above 80*....
So- why does it not follow that if we have a higher fish to water volume ratio, and we have raised our temps....with no added disease issues (in fact most would agree that it has lessened their problems with illness) well - why the opposite with seahorses?
Maybe what I am trying to figure out is why sea horses immune response is completely opposite to most of its other tropical temperature neighbors?
Please explain - I am thinking about another tank for the Mrs. - and she loves seahorse and pipefish....
T
ann83
New member
It doesn't have to do with the seahorses directly (other than the fact that dissolved oxygen is lower at higher temps which = stress). It has to do with the bacteria that seahorses most often fall ill with. Seahorses are prone to infections of vibrio sp. Many of those sp. are known to reproduce at a higher rate at higher temps (duh), but more importantly, are known to mutate to produce more virulent proteins when at temperatures higher than 74*, making them more dangerous as well.
I don't think anyone is entirely sure why seahorses seem to have more trouble with bacterial infection, however it is possible/theorized that it is due to the fact that they spend a large majority of time in contact with surfaces (where benthic bacteria reside). Coupled with the fact that they are scaleless, and yet do not have the protective slime coat that most other scaleless demersal fish possess, and they could be more vulnerable... But the bottom line is, they are prone to bacterial infection, and the infections they most often get are more virulent at temperatures above 74 degrees.
We do not have the massive dilution power of the ocean in our aquariums to keep bacterial populations in check, so we have to be more "ideal" in our conditions than what can be survived in the ocean.
I don't think anyone is entirely sure why seahorses seem to have more trouble with bacterial infection, however it is possible/theorized that it is due to the fact that they spend a large majority of time in contact with surfaces (where benthic bacteria reside). Coupled with the fact that they are scaleless, and yet do not have the protective slime coat that most other scaleless demersal fish possess, and they could be more vulnerable... But the bottom line is, they are prone to bacterial infection, and the infections they most often get are more virulent at temperatures above 74 degrees.
We do not have the massive dilution power of the ocean in our aquariums to keep bacterial populations in check, so we have to be more "ideal" in our conditions than what can be survived in the ocean.
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ann83
New member
Oh, and seahorses immune response is not different to other fishes. Other fishes do get stressed at temps at the high end of their natural range/higher than their optimal range. Raising temps does not promote better immune response. It does speed up the lifecycle of some parasites (and therefore is sometimes recommended in the treatment of crypt), but it does not boost the immune system of the fish.
O.K. ....
That they are scaleless, and have no slimecoat does makes sense that their proclivity to bacterial infection is greater. I am not sure about the "benthic" bacteria connection. Benthic typically applies to "bottom dwellers" (like my brother in law...)
I have always seen seahorses in eel grass, mangroves, and fairly shallow envireons, and can't remember seeing them feeding from the bottom. But it has been a long time since then.....(30 years or so)
I appreciate your response.
T
That they are scaleless, and have no slimecoat does makes sense that their proclivity to bacterial infection is greater. I am not sure about the "benthic" bacteria connection. Benthic typically applies to "bottom dwellers" (like my brother in law...)
I have always seen seahorses in eel grass, mangroves, and fairly shallow envireons, and can't remember seeing them feeding from the bottom. But it has been a long time since then.....(30 years or so)
I appreciate your response.
T
Sorry - not to embarrass or argue here:
Benthic strictly and specifically pertains to bottom dwelling.
And - as well, what about "benthic bacteria" makes them hazardous? Is there documentation that parses the number of strains in given samples from various habitats, and does so by pathogenic-vs- non-pathogenic as respects seahorses...?
Benthic strictly and specifically pertains to bottom dwelling.
And - as well, what about "benthic bacteria" makes them hazardous? Is there documentation that parses the number of strains in given samples from various habitats, and does so by pathogenic-vs- non-pathogenic as respects seahorses...?
ann83
New member
Not embarrassed, thats why I clarified what I meant. I'm not trying to publish a paper, just discuss with hobbyists. Next time I refer to it when talking to you, I won't use the word benthic.
Not saying benthic makes them hazardous. I threw that out there as a small part of an idea/theory that has been passed around (and clarified it as such), not as a scientific fact.
I am saying that the bacteria that turn up time and time again in necropsies of seahorses, the bacteria that culture out time and time again from infection sites on seahorses, etc. etc. are bacteria that are more virulent at temperatures above 74 degrees. I am also saying that bacterial infection is a major cause of seahorse death, regardless of the reason why it is so. So in light of that, it makes sense that practically, we have also seen much lower incidence of infection and death in seahorses kept at temperatures below 74 degrees.
If you want scientific reading, it is out there, but I'm not, by any means, going to post a list of hundreds of articles just to defend my point on a hobbyist site. There's a good book, Working Notes, on seahorse disease, and perhaps starting with the references listed in that book would help get you started.
Not saying benthic makes them hazardous. I threw that out there as a small part of an idea/theory that has been passed around (and clarified it as such), not as a scientific fact.
I am saying that the bacteria that turn up time and time again in necropsies of seahorses, the bacteria that culture out time and time again from infection sites on seahorses, etc. etc. are bacteria that are more virulent at temperatures above 74 degrees. I am also saying that bacterial infection is a major cause of seahorse death, regardless of the reason why it is so. So in light of that, it makes sense that practically, we have also seen much lower incidence of infection and death in seahorses kept at temperatures below 74 degrees.
If you want scientific reading, it is out there, but I'm not, by any means, going to post a list of hundreds of articles just to defend my point on a hobbyist site. There's a good book, Working Notes, on seahorse disease, and perhaps starting with the references listed in that book would help get you started.
I think you mistake my intentions.
When someone makes a statement which is general in nature, but written in an "authoritative" manner - I just want the data from which they make these statements.
In your original postings, I must have overlooked the disclaimers. I would refer you to my first posting - where I asked WHERE did you get the information? ( the question was not asked of you, but you responded - so I had hoped you might actually have factual data to share)
In closing - and I hope this is really in closing, I do not want this to be un-friendly I was not desiring to take you to task for your opinion. I am looking for the facts that support said opinion.
I do appreciate your referral to the book mentioned in your post. I will get a copy.
T
When someone makes a statement which is general in nature, but written in an "authoritative" manner - I just want the data from which they make these statements.
In your original postings, I must have overlooked the disclaimers. I would refer you to my first posting - where I asked WHERE did you get the information? ( the question was not asked of you, but you responded - so I had hoped you might actually have factual data to share)
In closing - and I hope this is really in closing, I do not want this to be un-friendly I was not desiring to take you to task for your opinion. I am looking for the facts that support said opinion.
I do appreciate your referral to the book mentioned in your post. I will get a copy.
T
