Pipefish with Ich - Any treatment apart from lower salinity?

T

TheAngler

New member
Hi all,

Background: I have a new tank 29 gallon, with 10 gallon sump/fuge, that is about 3-4 months old)...I am not really new to the hobby. I had this 29 gallon tank set up from about 2006-2009. However, I have never experience Ich. Two weeks ago, I purchased 2 banded pipefish, and a firefish. After doing some research, I was going to set up a HT and dose with copper for 4-weeks and fallow the DT for 9+ weeks, but it looks like the pipes can't handle it.

I don't know that I trust myself lowering the salinity and I hear that it only suppresses the Ich. To further my problem, my pipes will only eat copepods. I just seeded my fuge with Tisbe. I don't know what to do to treat my pipefish and feed them at the same time, though I guess if I'm not dosing copper for them then, I will not be in danger of kill the copepods that I stick in to feed them. When my LFS opens, I will ask if they have the ability to treat my pipes...In the meantime I hope someone has successfully treated them, while not killing off their food source. I've read that probiotics (for fish) can be helpful...any experience?

My DT is a reef, so no copper treatment in it, of course...
It houses-
Misc coral, mushrooms, peppermint shrimp, macro, LTA, decorator crab, snails, cucumber, zoos.
Fish-
2 banded pipefish, firefish, 2 perc. clowns

How big does my HT have to be 10-20 gal?

Tank parameters are good. Currently, I'm feeding garlic soaked food. I noticed the first spot on a fish 3 days ago, so time is not my friend.

Thanks for any advice you can give!
 
I believe it is Ich, all the fish have some spots. The firefish has the most and rubs on the rocks...The clowns have the fewest spots, but I think this is due to them rubbing on the LTA. The pipe fish don't have many visible, but have heavy breathing and more spots today then yesterday.

The local fish store told me the best course of action would be to leave the fish in the DT, so as to not stress them more (especially since I can't easily treat the pipefish in a HT). He also suggested that I treat with "Herbtana" and garlic in the DT. I think I'll also purchase some probiotics that I saw on Dr. Foster's website. The LFS said that it's one of those things where the only thing that really works is copper, and if their immune systems are strong, they can fight it off, otherwise they won't.

So far, the fish are still very active and eating, so I guess time will tell. If anyone has suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Thanks.
 
When my pipefish exhibited heavy gilling/breathing I gave them a dip in formalin 3. (I think this involved a 50 minute dip in 1 gallon of tank water with one teaspoon of the formalin 3). They recovered fully. I also dipped my percula clownfish who were also breathing heavily. You could try such a dip on all of your fish. This is especially effective treatment if what your fish actually suffer from is Brooklynella, a pretty common parasite hosted by clownfish, pipefish and seahorses and it might have been brought into your tank when you picked up the new pipefish. It is a very good sign that they are eating.
 
Oh... please make sure that you aerate them while they are in the bucket if you decide to do the 50 minute bath with the formalin 3 treatment. A simple airpump and airstone will work just fine. Best of luck to you.
 
I don't know about Pipefish, but seahorses usually only get ich in the gills. Despite what everyone says, seahorses handle copper well. I would imagine that pipefish would too.
Formalin bath is good for removing them off the animal but doesn't treat the tank. The formalin bath would also be a benefit if it is something else as suggested.
If you can source formalin, make sure what the strength is. Formalin 3 is prediluted. Full strength formalin is 1 ml per gallon for 45 minutes.
Garlic is a pretty good antiparasitic but does best when ingested. You need a higher dose than what is typically found in fish food.

Dan
 
Forgot to mention, Probiotics probably won't cure the fish. They are still good for the tank and the fish but as far as treating parasitic issues, not much help.

Dan
 
Thanks TJ and Dan, I'll look into the Formaline 3. I know my local fish store doesn't have it, so not sure how soon I can get ahold of some. TJ, did you dip the fish only once? Did you do anything to the DT? I'm afraid of doing anything to drastic to the pipefish. They are so small and they were pretty scared when introduced to the tank. I don't want to stress them out too much.

So far, everything is looking good. There are still spots visible, but everyone is still eating and roaming about.

I've read more about the probiotics, and it does look like they are more for tank bacteria then for preventing/treating parasites. I'm going to do more research into this though.
 
Hi Angler..if the pipefish do not seem better after a couple of days you can dip them a second time. But you need to wait at least 48 hours in between dips. Hopefully two dips will take care of the problem.

Some people will also dose metronidazole directly into their display tanks to deal with parasites. Perhaps Dan knows more about this than I do?
 
Metronidazole (Flagyl) is an antiparasitic and antibacterial medication used to treat anaerobic species. Don't think it would be a good candidate for this particular issue. Unless the tank is a bare bottom production tank setup to handle medication, I am very careful about medicating the tank. Metro can also be pretty harsh. With seahorses, we use it primarily for treating intestinal flagellates ideally through gut loading.

Dan
 
Thank you for the clarification on the dips, TJ. It seems like the Ich would still be in the substrate if I only did the dips though. I do think it is most likely Ich. I only see a couple of spots on each fish. My firefish which had around 15 spots, no longer has visible spots, but last night he did some weird thing that looked like rubbing on the rock. Only one clown shows a single spot on a fin, and the other who lives in the LTA, shows none. The pipefish while showing less spots, do have new spots...Maybe 3-4 each. One has a spot above an eye, they each have one on a fin, one has a spot on the top of the nose. I'm ordering the Formalin today. I guess my hesitation is that I don't want it to make them weak since they look and act fine, apart from the spots and what I think is slightly labored breathing. I never noticed them breathe before, so that is why I think it may be labored.

Thanks Dan for the info on the Flagyl. I did look at that product at my fish store and wondered...I have a reef and with that in mind and the fact that my pipefish still refuse anything but live copepods, I probably don't want to treat with it in my tank.

I appreciate all your help guys. In the future, I should probably set up a quarentine tank...my local fish store owner told me that he does not quarentine or treat with copper. He says treating the fish and then having the customer buy the fish and introducing it into their DT stresses the fish into contracting Ich anyways and then they are too weak to fight it off. He said he's ran a shop both ways...I'm not sure what I think about his philosophy. There seems to be a lot of information on both sides of this topic.
 
Well, I thought I ordered Formalin 3! A lady called me last night to inform me that they do not make Formalin 3 anymore. I have scowered the internet and found only one product that appears to be close...All other companies are sold old/product is discontinued. :(

Pond Rid-Ich+®

This is a combination of two powerful medications proven scientifically to be effective in the control of many diseases caused by freshwater external protozoan parasites, including ich, Costia, Trichodina and Chilodonella. The medication can also treat fungal infections in fish. Contains formalin and malachite green; 16 oz (473 ml) treat 960 gallons (3.6 cubic meters). Pond Rid-Ich+ is not FDA-approved for use on food fish.

And it cannot be shipped in temperatures below 40ºF...the nights here are below 40F, so not sure if I could get it here or not...

Has anyone used the malachite green with the Formalin 3? Is this an acceptable combo?

Fortunately, my fish are still doing well.
 
Well, I thought I ordered Formalin 3! A lady called me last night to inform me that they do not make Formalin 3 anymore. I have scowered the internet and found only one product that appears to be close...All other companies are sold old/product is discontinued. :(

Pond Rid-Ich+®

"This is a combination of two powerful medications proven scientifically to be effective in the control of many diseases caused by freshwater external protozoan parasites, including ich, Costia, Trichodina and Chilodonella. The medication can also treat fungal infections in fish. Contains formalin and malachite green; 16 oz (473 ml) treat 960 gallons (3.6 cubic meters). Pond Rid-Ich+ is not FDA-approved for use on food fish."

And it cannot be shipped in temperatures below 40ºF...the nights here are below 40F, so not sure if I could get it here or not...

Has anyone used the malachite green with the Formalin 3? Is this an acceptable combo?

Fortunately, my fish are still doing well.
 
No Formalin 3 anymore??? Try looking online for "Pond Formalin 3"...that is what I have currently and it is exactly the same product as regular Formalin 3 (maybe just comes in a larger bottle).

I have never used Pond Rid-Ich+, but I have heard of people dipping in both Formalin and Malachite Green. Have you checked the forums on seahorse.com? You might find more info there (you will need to create an account to login...but it's free).
 
No Formalin 3 anymore??? Try looking online for "Pond Formalin 3"...that is what I have currently and it is exactly the same product as regular Formalin 3 (maybe just comes in a larger bottle).

I have never used Pond Rid-Ich+, but I have heard of people dipping in both Formalin and Malachite Green. Have you checked the forums on seahorse.com? You might find more info there (you will need to create an account to login...but it's free).
 
Most of the manufacturers for the hobby have dropped Formalin after the gov changed it's listing from may cause cancer to does cause cancer. FishVet makes Formalin MS which is available. It is 37% or full strength formalin. Formalin is still used and readily available on the commercial level in gallon and 55 gallon quantities.

The cold can make formalin precipitate and turn it into para-formaldehyde which is toxic. If you order any, simply pour it into a clear container, it should be clear with no crystals. If so, fine to use, if cloudy or crystals, do not use.

The Rid-Ich is a good product but it should be used in a hospital tank with a long term bath rather than a dip. Malachite Green can be pretty harsh on some species.

Dan
 
TJ, I had a look around the Seahorse.com site, but I didn't find an effective way to search for Ich solutions.

Thank you Dan, I looked up the Formalin MS and it looks like I can pick some up. I appreciate your advice about checking to see if it's gone toxic.

I think I'll order some of it and give it a try. My fish are looking pretty good still. The clowns have developed some black spots that are not raised. I've done some searching online and it looks like they are being stung by coral? Or at least those are the marks that look like ones I've found online. Kinda strange.
 
Yesterday was the last day for me to finish out the Herbtana treatment...Unfortunately, my fish have some spots again. The good news is that they are all still alive and eating. I ordered some Formalin MS and a bunch of vitamins for them 2 days ago, so hopefully those will be here soon.

I plan on doing 3-5 dips of Formalin MS, one every other day, at a rate of 1 ml per gallon of water, for all of my fish. Hopefully this will be enough to break the ich cycle.
 
As long as fish remain in the tank, the ick may get under control but it won't stop the cycle or rid the tank of the pest.
 
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