Pistol shrimp and increasing temperature

[duanegraham]

So I had a 10g QT tank, (never had copper) cleaned it out and donated it to a friend who kept her beta in what looked like a half gallon cube, don't ask. Now I purchased new fish, added them directly to my 90g dt, again, don't ask, and naturally, ick. So in the morning I'll be waking up early to get a new tank, reusing old equipment and transferring all fish for a copper treatment.
Now two parts:
I have a goby/pistol shrimp pair that obviously need to be separated, but will the shrimp be able to fend for himself? There is only one blood shrimp, a cbs who will be removed as he's overstayed his welcome, and some snails and a hermit crab or three, plus maybe some types of bristleworms that he'll remain in the dt with.
And part two:
I have my dt temperature set at 82, I'd like to gradually increase the temperature to perhaps 86 to increase the, for lack of a better word at 4:35am, development of the disease to be rid of it faster. I have a few soft corals and a bubble tip which I'm wondering would be affected, as well as other critters mentioned above.
Thanks in advance! Wish me luck!

 

[snorvich]

Increasing the temperature to 86 will have no effect on the marine version of ich, cryptocaryon irritans. And tank transfer is more effective than copper and better for your fish.

 

[duanegraham]

Increasing the temperature to 86 will have no effect on the marine version of ich, cryptocaryon irritans. And tank transfer is more effective than copper and better for your fish.

Hm, that's an answer I wasn't expecting to receive, I've read your in depth post on ich the real scoop, which was extremely helpful, I had assumed, and that is based on non experience, that the stress of moving fish from tank to tank I would have more loses than if I used a copper method. I'm not terribly excited about daily acclimation, but if it's felt that's the best way then when is the ideal time? I'm guessing in the morning after the ich hopefully dropped off overnight into the protomont stage?

Granted the pistol shrimp should be the least of my worries but I've grown very fond of him and viewing his relationship with the goby so I believe I will place in a small vented container within my dt until the procedure is complete for protection and ease of feeding.

 

[MatnNatsReef]

Hm, that's an answer I wasn't expecting to receive, I've read your in depth post on ich the real scoop, which was extremely helpful, I had assumed, and that is based on non experience, that the stress of moving fish from tank to tank I would have more loses than if I used a copper method. I'm not terribly excited about daily acclimation, but if it's felt that's the best way then when is the ideal time? I'm guessing in the morning after the ich hopefully dropped off overnight into the protomont stage?

Granted the pistol shrimp should be the least of my worries but I've grown very fond of him and viewing his relationship with the goby so I believe I will place in a small vented container within my dt until the procedure is complete for protection and ease of feeding.

I listened to the man above(snorvich) and followed the instructions to the letter and it's worked perfectly thus far. Just move the fish no longer than every 72 hours. Time of day day is far less important then staying on schedule and preventing contamination. Making sure things are cleaned and dried properly is paramount.

As far as you pistol shrimp goes. I was in the same situation and just target fed him while his goby away. Although mine was pretty easy to see once the smell of food got in the water. In a larger tank your idea of kinda fencing him in may be helpful.

 

[duanegraham]

I listened to the man above(snorvich) and followed the instructions to the letter and it's worked perfectly thus far. Just move the fish no longer than every 72 hours. Time of day day is far less important then staying on schedule and preventing contamination. Making sure things are cleaned and dried properly is paramount.

As far as you pistol shrimp goes. I was in the same situation and just target fed him while his goby away. Although mine was pretty easy to see once the smell of food got in the water. In a larger tank your idea of kinda fencing him in may be helpful.

Yeah I like the idea of keeping my ps safe, too much ground for him to cover on his own.
Well I'm a very stubborn man, and I was planning on going the copper route, but when snorvich says what's best, I'll listen! Luckily it seems a good deal of the ich fell off over night so now's my chance to round up the little rascals and get them to the hospital, does anyone know the number for 911?

 

[duanegraham]

One last look before the destruction

 

[ThRoewer]

A pistol shrimp will do just fine as long as there are no shrimp eating fish or other large predatory organisms in the tank.

Cranking up the temperature works only for freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis), but not on Cryptocaryon (saltwater ich). Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is similar in appearance, but not related to Cryptocaryon irritans.

As for copper - I would never again expose any of my fish to that poison as it can do mor harm than good. Most notably it is an immunosuppressant that will weaken the fish's immune system - the last thing you want when having a sick fish.

If it is clearly identified as Cryptocaryon, TTM, hyposalinity or a combination of both is more effective and much gentler on the fish since it doesn't need any medication.

When in doubt it could also be something else I would also add formalin dips to TTM.
Best practice would be to do at least one formalin dip when starting quarantine or TTM. That way you reduce the risk of your fish dying of undiagnosed velvet, brook or uronema while in TTM/quarantine.

 

[duanegraham]

I'm terrible with attachments.

 

[snorvich]

Luckily it seems a good deal of the ich fell off over night

That is part of the ich life cycle; it does not mean that all are off the fish as they are not visible in the gills.

 

[duanegraham]

A pistol shrimp will do just fine as long as there are no shrimp eating fish or other large predatory organisms in the tank.

Cranking up the temperature works only for freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis), but not on Cryptocaryon (saltwater ich). Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is similar in appearance, but not related to Cryptocaryon irritans.

When in doubt it could also be something else I would

also add formalin dips to TTM.
Best practice would be to do at least one formalin dip when starting quarantine or TTM. That way you reduce the risk of your fish dying of undiagnosed velvet, brook or uronema while in TTM/quarantine.

Thanks throewer, I might just do that, originally I was thinking of a fresh water dip, but formalin makes more sense, is paraguard the same idea? I haven't seen formalin before and I have paraguard on hand. Is there such a thing as a "formalin" freshwater dip, or is this too much all at once? But might be best to get it out of the way early? Idk. All fish are healthy and eating, I have cut off pellet dispenser and have gone to brine shrimp and krill as well as a frozen "pro green" tropical fish food all soaked in garlic, because, well, why not. And yes that's a good point I feel like someone somewhere along the e-line posted some misinformation about temperature regarding marine ich, not this site, through a google search, thanks for you and snorvich clarifying,

 

[snorvich]

garlic is bad for fish long term and does nothing for ich or other parasite. Fresh water dips accomplish nothing except as a diagnosis tool for flukes.

 

[duanegraham]

garlic is bad for fish long term and does nothing for ich or other parasite.

Yes I saw it as just a temporary thing, I have one last feed of garlic food mixed, then I'm going to leave it at that and stick to pellets / frozen foods.

And I saw all the warnings about thinking ich is cured when spots dissappeared however my blue tang hasn't been darting around and breathing as erratically as the other day, so I'm pretty happy to know that he's in decent shape for the move, I believe he was the carrier.

 

[snorvich]

Yes I saw it as just a temporary thing, I have one last feed of garlic food mixed, then I'm going to leave it at that and stick to pellets / frozen foods.

And I saw all the warnings about thinking ich is cured when spots dissappeared however my blue tang hasn't been darting around and breathing as erratically as the other day, so I'm pretty happy to know that he's in decent shape for the move, I believe he was the carrier.

P. hepatus needs a much larger tank long term.

 

[duanegraham]

P. hepatus needs a much larger tank long term.

Hi, I'm not sure if you noticed the recommendation of a formalin dip before quarantine if you even agree with it, however formalin has been banned in Ontario I'm wondering if you're familiar with paraguard if it would provide the same or similar results in the event that it is early onset of marine velvet,

 

[duanegraham]

Actually now that I think of it, it wouldn't be marine velvet as some of the spots have dropped off the fish, is this a correct diagnosis?

 

[ThRoewer]

... my blue tang ... I believe he was the carrier.

Adding a tang to your tank (unless it is of appropriate size = huge!) is like asking for ich outbreaks, especially if then also skip quarantine.
I would part with that fish and let him die somewhere else. The majority of all imported blue tangs perish in tanks much too small for them. Unfortunately those numbers will only go up when "Finding Dory" comes out this summer and millions of kids want to add a Dory to their Nemo)

Hi, I'm not sure if you noticed the recommendation of a formalin dip before quarantine if you even agree with it, however formalin has been banned in Ontario I'm wondering if you're familiar with paraguard if it would provide the same or similar results in the event that it is early onset of marine velvet,

Formalin needs to be at the right concentration or it may not work. And it is pretty much the only thing that reliably kills brook and uronema. I would not experiment with substitutes, unless they have been properly investigated and proven to be effective (by research, not manufacturer claims).
Lawmakers pass lots of general laws without always being aware of the finer details and implications (either out of ignorance or too give themselves legitimation).
So if you can't get Formalin in Canada I would make a day trip to Buffalo or Detroit and get a bottle of Formalin MS (or any other stabilized 37% formalin)there at a LFS. You may want to look them up and call if they have it.
It is one of the "medications" I wouldn't want to be without in this hobby.

As for now I think you will be fine with TTM. Your observations match ich well enough.
Velvet doesn't have this clear on and off cycle. And if you see it on the skin the fish is half dead anyway and behaving accordingly.
Brook, uronema and other protozoan parasites multiply on the fish so equally no on and off cycle.

 

[snorvich]

Adding a tang to your tank (unless it is of appropriate size = huge!) is like asking for ich outbreaks, especially if then also skip quarantine.
I would part with that fish and let him die somewhere else. The majority of all imported blue tangs perish in tanks much too small for them. Unfortunately those numbers will only go up when "Finding Dory" comes out this summer and millions of kids want to add a Dory to their Nemo)



Formalin needs to be at the right concentration or it may not work. And it is pretty much the only thing that reliably kills brook and uronema. I would not experiment with substitutes, unless they have been properly investigated and proven to be effective (by research, not manufacturer claims).
Lawmakers pass lots of general laws without always being aware of the finer details and implications (either out of ignorance or too give themselves legitimation).
So if you can't get Formalin in Canada I would make a day trip to Buffalo or Detroit and get a bottle of Formalin MS (or any other stabilized 37% formalin)there at a LFS. You may want to look them up and call if they have it.
It is one of the "medications" I wouldn't want to be without in this hobby.

As for now I think you will be fine with TTM. Your observations match ich well enough.
Velvet doesn't have this clear on and off cycle. And if you see it on the skin the fish is half dead anyway and behaving accordingly.
Brook, uronema and other protozoan parasites multiply on the fish so equally no on and off cycle.

I agree with above.

 

[duanegraham]

Adding a tang to your tank (unless it is of appropriate size = huge!) is like asking for ich outbreaks

Formalin needs to be at the right concentration or it may not work.

As for now I think you will be fine with TTM.

I know there are some out there that believe an ich free tank is impossible, if you believe that having a tang is a guarantee of outbreaks then I guess you subscribe to this belief? I'd LIKE to lean the other way but I have nothing to base that on.

And no I was unable to attain formalin atm as I want to quarantine my fish asap, but maybe within the next day or two I could make the trip, I'm curious what customs thinks,.. I'm obviously not planning on selling it by the gram or ounce, but still curious.

And TTM I'm unfamiliar with, total tank murder,..?? Haha.

These pics I provide as a reference if anyone ever asks if quarantining fish is necessary! (if I've figured out attachments)

 

[duanegraham]

Eunicid worm?? If so any takers?? Hunh? Hunh?? You know you want to!

Found him under the rock where my pistol was always hiding,.. Haven't seen him in about an hour or so, am slightly worried, but is it possible worm was there the whole time?

 

[duanegraham]

False alarm, pistol was buried. Whew. Does this worm get destroyed?