please review my interceptor treatment plan!

Reef-Jitsu said:
Fahz, actually the information was somewhat in this thread. Mike NY posted, however nobody answered. Boy am I glad you cought that :eek1: thank you so much! After looking at the size of the pills (which are smaller than the large dog pills) I don't think I can go with the spoon method because I don't think I can get 4 spoonfuls out of one tablet to treat 32 gal (less beefy flavor to milbemycin ratio)I will have to go with the analogy that one pill will treat 95 gal (now I see what you were talking about with the 1/4 statement). So, here's what I plan to do; Dose my 125 tank + 30 gal sump system with 1 and 3/4 pills for treatment. (Theoretically, I am dosing for 166 gal and my total system volume is 155 gal but it is alright to overdose a little).

Seriously, not trying to hijack. Just want to get confirmation (Fahz) that this makes sense and then I am off to dose :)

Lee

Lee glad I caught you before using to little but now you may be using to much. It's not a problem, I don't think, but your only dosing for water volume. If you have LR and sand your water volume should be about 130 gallons with your sump volume. One and a half pills should be more then enough for a 140 gallons. I don't think Lunch minds using his thread as we all learn from each other.

Fahz
 
Lunch hope the shrimp and Emeralds makes it as it does seem to knock them silly. My Blood Red made it but a Peppermint parished in the second treatment. Hope you don't mind using your thread to help another red bug Killer.

Fahz
 
heck no everyone jump on...learn!! :D

fahz - did you see yours all messed up??? the shrimp seems a LITTLE better...still knocked silly though

Lunchbucket
 
I did my first treatment to a different tank with frags only. I removed all the frags and treated them in a 5 gallon tank at high dose then put them back in the original tank. I should have done a water change on them before I put them back. The toxins coming off the frags knocked all of my hermits silly in the original tank. I though I might lose them but it just made them stop in there tracks for a half a day.

Fahz
 
the shrimp is still holding on. has been on the sand lately since about 5pm. not dead just sitting on the sand. it has moved places also.

the emeralds are fine. they were still for 1/2 of the day but tonight they were moving

we will see what tomorrow brings
Lunchbucket
 
found the shrimp dead this morning. :( wish it was an emerald and NOT the cleaner shrimp. now i will have to get a new one sometime soon and some pepps sucks he had to suffer like that :(

ok now my question is i had ICH from a fish (my tang) and they just got done w/ thier hypo treatment to kill it. if i go to the LFS and get a cleaner and some pepps i run the risk of introducing ICH back into my system since it takes 30days plus w/ NO fish to kill the ICH correct? so it could WOULD be in thier tanks still whether i see ICH or not...correct? hmm.....so that means i need to QT the inverts for 30days or i need to order online where they SHOULN'T have ICH correct??

just trying to get the disasters out of my system

Lunchbucket
 
Lunch, Yes, you can re-introduce ich by adding new inverts. In fact, I remember reading an article by Eric Borneman a while back... he found that ich could even be introduced from corals as the parasites can be in their guts. I don't think ordering online will guarantee anything either. Bottom line is that EVERYTHING needs to be quarantined for 6-8 weeks. 4 weeks isn't long enough, IME.
 
crap crapy crap. oh well i'll wait till i get the clowns in the tank and then i will downgrade to a 10gal QT for the inverts and a fish or two.

thanks!!
Lunchbucket
 
Lunchbucket said:
crap crapy crap. oh well i'll wait till i get the clowns in the tank and then i will downgrade to a 10gal QT for the inverts and a fish or two.

thanks!!
Lunchbucket

It never ends does it?:lol: Seriously though, I'm sure any "expert" would recommend that you quarantine EVERYTHING. But you are free to take your own chances. I mean what is really the probability of introducing ich with a new shrimp. I would say the probability is probably <1%.
 
so the chances are pretty slim???? i know QT'ing is the way to go but you know how it is in an apt...no ROOM for a QT tank. i'm thinking if i drip acclimate and then rinse i might be ok...but might not be....if i get ICH it is my own fault :( but 6wks in a WT tank....i don' think i can handle it

Lunchbucket
 
I would think you should be ok. Just make sure not to add any of the store water to your tank. Especially if you get them from Mini Critters.:lol: If you are paranoid then just quarantine it for a couple days. If any ich comes with the cleaner shrimp it should be gone within a couple days. I'm not 100% sure but I highly doubt ich would even attach itself to the cleaner shrimp. If there is any in its gut then I'm sure it should get pooped out in a couple days. But still make sure not to add any water from the Q tank to your display. If ich does get into the Q tank it could still be alive in one of its non-cyst stages in the water.
 
Hey Lunch:

If your LFS is the source of your problems I would consider ordering from LiveAquaria shipping is only $25 and there fish and inverts are excellent. Plan delivery on a day when you can pickup the package at 8:30 in the FedEx office. You can't beat the 14 day gaurentee and there prices and selection are excellent. I don't even bother with our LFS's and there BS anymore.

Fahz
 
Good point Fahz. Especially since Lunch's closest LFS is an hour away anyways. I've had good experiences with LiveAquria and they do have the lowest prices for shipping around. Another option would be eTropicals. You can "build your own" invert package and if you spend over $60 you get free shipping.
 
fahz - i hear you on that. yeah the LFS is 1hr away and mostly CRAP anyhow. i can't pick it up at the fed ex location...because they are 1hr from me too :D there isn't a station in our town.

travis - not a bad idea i need to add some more snails and would like to get soms nassarius (sp?) snails for my sand.

i'd need a couple pepps and one or two cleaners...plus snails so it would be pretty easy to get 60bucks.

thanks for the suggestions guys. i'll try liveaquaria or etropicals

Lunchbucket
 
Ok this is very strange. I just re read this thread last weekend. I had to redo the threatment as I found a couple RB's and wanted to nip them before they caused trouble and multiplied. Not sure where I got them again as I believe I did a 6hr QT w/ all new incoming corals. Maybe I forgot to do it on my PM frag.

Anywho did a 8hr treatment w/ 4 salifert spoons to make sure that I got them all incase they were Interceptor resistant. Did that on Sunday. I'm going to do another treatment on Sat.

Lunchbucket
 
I did two treatments about 30%over dose, I was ready to do a third but monitored and wasn't needed

link here with pictures taken about every 2 hours
http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=40815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


here are my final notes

Final log notes

I’ll consider this a very successful Red Bug treatment

Beginning notes
• I suspect I got the Red Bugs on a mail order coral that I got in May of 2007
• The red bugs were first noticed by an experienced reefer during one of our clubs tank tours in June 2007
• I never did notice them on other corals, but it was pointed out to me when I sold some extra frags that they had Red Bugs.
• Started to read as many forum write ups on treating for Red Bugs using Interceptor. I was getting several variations to the original plan so I started asking questions on the forum. It’s the start of this post.
• Decided to start the treatment with hopes to do it once, but based on feedback I prepared on doing it three times.
• Started to remove crabs the week of 12/21 from my reef tank and moved them to the 29g seahorse tank. Getting an Acro crab out was a concern, but between staying in water and a little coaxing with a toothpick he decided what was best for him. The best I could tell I got all but 3 hermits out.
• Made a couple attempts at getting the shrimp out but they are much faster and spook much easier then hermit crabs.

Started first treatment on 12/28 at 9:50
• I used 1 full sized tablet, enough for 380 gallons according to the initial recommended dosage. So based on a rough calculation of my systems total volume I estimated I overdosed by 35% (380/280, the 280 is based on 280 for main, 40 for sump and piping, less 40 for volume taken up by live rock)
• I also planned on running the treatment longer then the initial recommendation.
• Turned off skimmer air & ozone, removed my carbon and phosphate reactors and drained them. All other piping was open to allow flow throughout the system. I crushed the tablet using a spoon and plate and mixed it in a small container with tank water. When dissolved, I poured the mixture into my sump into the high flow area just upstream of my return pump.
• Monitored red bugs and shrimp about every 2 hours. Taking progress pictures that are posted in this thread.
• I’d say 75%+ of the red bugs were gone at the 4 hour mark, with over 90% gone at the 10 hour mark. One showed up at the 12 hour mark.
• Everything looked clear at the 14 hour mark. I started fresh carbon and skimmer after 15 hours form introducing the treatment. I hooked up the phosphate reactors later that day.
• All shrimp and the purple lobster survive, lost 2 hermits that were not removed earlier.

First week after treatment observations
• Nothing noticeable for first 3 days
• I tested water on day 2, nitrates were up a bit, but no big deal. Notice Iodine/Iodate were low so dosed with Lugals solution. A couple of the shrimp molted that night, this may have helped them get through the second dose as from all other posts I have read the second dose is usually too much for them to handle. I’m noting this for others, they may want to incorporate it into a procedure they use with shrimp in the system. I think I just got lucky as it was not a planned event.
• Day four there appears to be a couple small white spots on the coral that had the worst infestation (all other corals appear clean). At this time not sure if they are Red bugs or something else. They are about 1/3 the normal red bug size.
• Day five, several more white spots noticed, about 5 in all, and they appear to me moving based on camera shots. Under the camera lens, a couple of the larger spots have a yellowish hue. At this time it is suspected they are new offspring red bugs. I have no clue if these are from a live parent that gave a recent hatch or what.
• Day 6 and 7, more spots and looking more like young red bugs. Decide to go with second treatment. Concerned about shrimp.

Started second treatment, 8 days after starting the first, on 1/6/08, at 10:30am
• Again turned off skimmer, ozone and removed carbon and phosphate reactors.
• 4 hours into second treatment all red bugs appear to be gone. No other bugs show up during the remaining treatment duration
• At 7:00am or 20.5 hours into second treatment I started the carbon, phos, and turned on the air to the skimmer. Apparently no impact to shrimp all accounted for that day doing there normal stuff.
• Changed carbon and did a 10% water change that night.
• Visually inspect and take close up photos of corals, nothing noticeable is observed throughout the week. Assume all red bugs have been eradicated. With the shrimp still alive success is clamed.
• Later that week, reintroduced most of the hermits and acro crab. No ill side affects noticed.
• Plan on doing another 15% water change this weekend (a week after second treatment) and reintroduce the rest of the hermits that were initially removed.

Other notes:
• The mid way iodine dosing was pure coincidence, but I think it may have helped the shrimp survive,
• At least one hermit survived the ordeal, two did not (may have been other un-noticed).
• A barnacle on a coral appeared totally unaffected during treatment. As these are considered a crustacean, I am noting it here.
• Polyp extension during treatment appeared more then normal. This was also observed in other posts.
• Nitrates slightly elevated, suspect it’s related to lack of cleanup crew and pod die off.
• Pod levels decreased significantly. None observed a week after second treatment. Will re-introduce from smaller seahorse tank that has a high population of various pods. May consider buying some new fresh live rock to help with pod population and other biodiversity.
 
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