Pods!!!

[thejrc]

he he sorry, been a hectic few days (horrors of self employment)... Pages are updated (even the intro... yaaay). I must say it's been interesting to watch the last few days. I've been behind on a lot of it due to work. Especially getting my pod handouts done... (patience guys I'm trying here)

 

[BLUEMANDJ]

From one self emplayed to another .... I totally understand!

 

[ReefJerk]

I have read that DT's changed their formula so that the phyto will not propogate if being used as a starter culture. I guess they sterilize it which keeps it alive but not able to multiply. Of course, this is just conjecture on my part.

 

[reefkoi]

You could get phyto live from reef nutrition. I remember Randy telling me that the stuff is so cheap you can't do it yourself, unless you are really really bored.
But hey, if your gonna do it I won't try to stop you! I'd love to have the time and space to have live phyto at all times, the real test of it working will be the long term effects of daily additions to a reef tank.
I think Randy basically said "anyone can make green water but to know if you have all the right types dividing is something the usual hobbiest doesn't know.
I need to read your site and see if you've covered this but will you know if the phyto you culture will be a viable run?
C
C

 

[ReefJerk]

So, Chris, what do you feed as far as phyto goes? With that watermelon sized, Derasa(?), I know you have to be dosing something. Are you using the Reef Nutrition? If so, how long does it last you? I am just looking to have a an infestation of pods in my tank. My mandarins are pretty fat, but I want to know that if suddenly they stopped eating pellets and PE Mysis that the plankton load could sustain them. I love fat fish, what can I say...

 

[reefkoi]

I do feed RN. The watermelon sized clam is a Gigas. I have been doing phytofeast daily now and I do the rotifeast every couple days along with daily arctipods for the fish and I know the corals catch some of the arctipods as well.
I'm thinking if you have an infestation of pods you will need to feed them well right? Maybe the rotifeast from RN is best? I'm not sure, you'd have to read the info on their website.
I don't know the secret to feeding but I remember going to MR Aqua before they were dosing it and that back coral tank looked just average. Then it started looking better and better each visit, I asked and that's when he told me about Phytofeast and how they add it daily.
So anyway It makes sense to feed the tank, I just don't have the time and room to raise rotifers and phyto, in my 600 a 32 ounce bottle lasts me probably a month, the rotifeast maybe 2 months.
I am now doing the shellfish diet instead of phytofeast since it is a much higher concentrate of the same species.
I get it all from Scott, he seems to have the freshest and cheapest prices on RN. The key is buying the large bottles it is MUCH cheaper ounce wise.

I also Love fat fish also and Randy said feeding phyto will feed the existing pod population already in the tank, it makes sense to me.

C

 

[ReefJerk]

I will have to get with Scott and get some questions answered. I was reading that the phyto was about an ounce per day per 100 gallons. But, if you're doing ~1 ounce per day in the 600, I would probably have 180 gallons of green water on my hands.

 

[thejrc]

the green water is a side project really, but I did notice that DT's was pretty much useless, I'll probably send off for some good culture starters before the month is through time providing. splitting the cultures is going to be the tricky part, the when's I havent yet figured out (I'm a hobbyist after all). Really I think I'm going to stick to the pod's, I've been getting some great info that I'm poring through currently and working with a few copepod "experts" if you will to get more info. Might as well get good at something....

As far as feeding phyto and such I typically feed twice a week with pumps off (about an hour before water changes). Since the tank is small and relatively thinly stocked I simply use one of my 5ml test tubes from my test kit, give it a squirt of phytoplex, some chromaplex and some zooplex to cover all the size bases just about to the line then pour it in across the top over the corals and such. It seems to do wonders.

I shoot a squirt of phytoplex or bio plankton into the fuge on a "whenever I think about it" basis to feed the pods there, it's typically three times weekly.

My water quality hasnt dropped and things seem to be thriving so I think I'll stick with this for now, I figure the water changes after feedings help to keep excess from floating around forever. Every once in a while I get a whim and use an eyedropper to get the stuff closer to the corals and worms but they seem to do the same regardless.

I'll keep you guys updated on the green water, though like I said it's more of a secondary, more something to feed the pods than anything (and I've been playing around with food mixes for the pods so it may be moot point).

 

[reefkoi]

Yeah i think its a good idea to stick with the pods, I think with phyto you have to really know what your doing to have something besides just green water, I mean how can you tell? Randy said you need a microscope and watch a cell over a few hours or days and see if it splits. They dont move so you dont even know if they are alive unless you see splitting.
I dunno it's too far advanced for my brain to process, but a worthwhile project for a budding scientist.
C

 

[thejrc]

heh microscope.... one of those peices of equipment I dont have....

 

[reefkoi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10315672#post10315672 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefJerk
I will have to get with Scott and get some questions answered. I was reading that the phyto was about an ounce per day per 100 gallons. But, if you're doing ~1 ounce per day in the 600, I would probably have 180 gallons of green water on my hands.

I am doing the shellfish diet which is 3x stronger than the phytofeast. So thats why I use less than what you have been researching probably. I'd go through a lot more phyto at the regular strength

 

[ReefJerk]

Cool. I'll check on the shellfish diet. But, still, in a 600, that is sweet to be able to dose only an ounce a day. How much diversity do you have in your fuge as far as pods and mysis go?

 

[thejrc]

short update on cultures.... The DT's actually did work, just took a while to kick off. I split the two phyto cultures last night! Not sure what it is about it but it took it ages to get started, I thought it was failed and sorta left it in the back and ignored the two bubbling bottles for the last week.... glad I didnt tear down.

I fed one of my smaller pod cultures with the "green water" as a test and they seem to be doing good with it. so now it's just a matter of seeing how these splits do and if I can keep them going.

 

[ReefJerk]

Sounds good, J. Keep us posted. Thanks.

 

[DivaMan]

Is there any possibility of you shipping some pods to me? I couldnt pay you, but I could leave a gift certificate at keys island for you that cover the costs......

 

[thejrc]

Well, general update but the blog has a new post.... I had to scrap some cultures (getting anal about it now). And am working out the details of a yeast / phyto feed that I've been reading about in an FAO article. Despite the long startup time the phyto cultures are doing amazingly well now with a nice split today! Thank god as I had to feed fresh cultures to replace the tainted ones (more on the blog). I've been spending the last few hours designing a solid culture system to increase capacity as well as provide for organization and better environmental control. I've got a few favors I can call in for a build so we will see! If this yeast supplement goes well I will definately have a better time.

Random fact, but I've found out that fish themselves dont actually contain the omega 3 fatty acids that they're recommended eating for, the pods, which make up for 60-90% of most fish diets are where it comes from. I've also found they're a heck of a lot more nutritious than rotifers without gut loading... nifty. I've been reading research papers on feeding for best results and it appears that a mixture of omega yeast (omega 3 enriched brewers yeast), rice bran, and isochrysis give one copepods that are loaded with protein and good fatty acids. The wonders of the internet.....

DivaMan: hmmm pod shipping, new one for me but as soon as my current cultures multiply we'll figure something out. By keys island I take it your in denver / englewood area which I routinely hit at least twice a month for work anyhow, it's possible I could deliver. Might be a few weeks as I've had to scrap a couple of cultures and want to get things down straight

 

[Huhhhhh]

Nice work there JRC

 

[thejrc]

Quick update for all, the podculture blog will now be updated nightly (if I can help it anyhow). I've come up with a system (he he, scary huh).

I will also be starting rotating 8 gallon cultures for SCMAS members to tap off of as soon as time provides. Given the recent success of my greenwater cultures I may be ordering some isochrysis cultures and setting up some rotating cultures of that for members as well (cause we can all stand some free phyto!).

anywho, the url for those who dont have it

This is the url folks....

whats next.... amphipods?? nah too normal...

 

[Caleb Kruse]

Wow, you definetly are an expert on pod and phyto culturing! What do you think about breeding mysis shrimp? Do you have any ideas about how I could have a phyto, and maybe other things, station built into my aquarium? Like a 10g, that every day I can just twist a valve that drains some live phyto into the sump?

 

[thejrc]

not sure about an expert quite yet, I'm reading a ton and have been going back and forth with copepodologists via email (my god theres a whole career track here!).

I've been pondering mysis myself and might jump in, as far as a culture station that's tank connected I've been pondering this as well. Production and lab systems have a flow through design where water is cycled in and out of the culture vessels, through filtration and back again with food dosing and such all plopped into the rig, I was pondering something like this by using carboys or these water jugs, with a stepped design.

The top jug would contain lightly fertilized water at 1.019 or so SG, the next containing my phyto culture, the third containing my pod culture. each interconnected with simple float valves. I could then tap off the pod culture (getting both phyto and pods) which would drop the level of course causing a nifty little chain reaction.

The odd one here is controlling specific gravity as water evaporates leaving salt, etc. The phyto does best at 1.019 to 1.021 from what I've been reading whereas the pods will want to be as close as possible to the target tank. The other tricky peice is when cultures dont match in density, if it's time for a phyto split before pods are ready to be extracted or vice versa you need to be able to tap off each culture without the whole apparatus going nuts (shouldnt be too hard though).

As far as a tank mounted solution perhaps a phyto culture system above the pump side of the sump, this way when you open the gate it hits the pump and automagically gets sprayed all over the tank for all to chow on.... hmmm

Ideas ideas.... you all give me too many ideas