pom pom crabs...lybia edmondsoni...

[gogo7]

hello folks, here we go again...

i have a two and a half gallon rearing vase that i've been cultivating and building various sponge filters for. i've been anticipating this hatch for a few weeks now. i think i've got it close. the latest model is my favourite, and been running for a week. i have very minimal sand in the bottom that i've left in there. the rv is about five rotifers per mil, and dosed with nanno, tetra and duna. i've got about four litres of euplotes on the go in anticipation of another breeding event.

i've been expecting this and followed it right up to the hatch.
here she is a few days ago... her egg clutch was still quite red.

here she is tonight, after lights out, she's making her way up the pipe to the surface.

here she is dropping the first few under the flow from the hob.

later on she climbed to the top where there's swirls of movement and let the rest go in one big go. the crab dance was amazing and couldn't capture it on video. i caught about seventy five percent. around two hundred.

here she is post hatch...

this is the rv setup for now...

 

[gogo7]

here's a zoa one hour post hatch.

it kept stroking itself with its tail under scope... i returned it unharmed.

it used these hind appendages like feet.

the vase is getting thinner in rotifers as i type this. luckily i have a lot, and started a few litres with artemia cysts... i wasn't expecting the zoa to be this large...hopefully they go for the bbs. there was a dense copepod population in there but it too is dwindling, that's okay, i've got lots of those too.
i've witnessed them zoom in on ciliates too, so i think my new eupotes dosing will help.
as a side note, i had a few shrimp zoa in there up til tonight. i think they were randalls, my wurdmanni aren't due til sunday. but considering the size of the pom pom zoa, i really doubt the shrimp larvae are gonna survive.

i'll keep this updated, hopefully it doesn't fail.

 

[kizanne]

Nice pictures is that a Celestron?

 

[Zacktosterone]

Cooooooool

 

[Coelli]

Awesome! But where will they get their little pom poms?

 

[Betta132]

I wonder if it would be possible to take a pompom from the adult (they'll split the remaining one if they lose one), keep it under bright light, and grow a supply of them for the babies? I imagine the babies go and pick their anemone up from somewhere, so the anemones probably grow fine without the crabs.

 

[Coelli]

Yeah, it would be cool to see if someone could propagate them! There's a poor little guy who's been on DD forever and no one will buy him because he has no pom poms.

They do share or steal from each other for sure. I bought two that both had their poms. One of them lost both of its poms, but now one has two and one has one. So somewhere, a gift/theft and a split happened. I suppose a lost one could have been found but it seems unlikely?

 

[gogo7]

Nice pictures is that a Celestron?

yes, it's the celestron.. i use the camera that i got separately. haven't actually used the eyepiece yet. using 'amcap' software.
it's fantastic on a forty two inch screen. it makes searching through cultures so much easier when it's on the screen.

 

[gogo7]

yeah guys, i never thought about the anemones. man oh man, this hobby gets more and more complicated... altough i think the female 'farms' them in the display structure. i've seen some white anemones in the tubes. if i get some pics, i'll post them.

i came home from work to crystal clear water and about two dozen zoa left.. i loaded the rv with rotis and about twenty mils of dense euplotes culture. i limit the ciliate dose because the culture water itself is pollution. all three phytos. i added about twenty mils of bbs. the zoa seem to ignore the bbs, although i've seen a few munching onf pink things.
i also noticed the two shrimp zoa munching on bbs. so they're still alive.
all the zoa are extremely large eaters. the crab zoa scoop up smaller rotifers, ciliates and copepod nauplii.

i'm understanding that i'm gonna have to culture lots of rotis and ciliates just to raise a few of these animals. i'm just gonna keep up with the daily wc. and my feeding schedule.
i'll post pics at forty eight hours. ish.

 

[kizanne]

any zoa still alive?

 

[gogo7]

any zoa still alive?

no, kiz. i've gotta say, there are none left. they're voracious feeders and need constant feeding. in between life and work, i couldn't keep up.

i've been fighting a duna crash. i was experimenting with another fert. and got caught short . almost lost it. same thing happened with my tetra.
and the little crabs eat tetra. they were very green. and the most beautiful orange eyes.
i didn't sacrifice any for the scope, wish i had knowing they were gonna crash.
my next steps are larger rearing quaters for the zoa.
been doing some pretty heavy research into methods i can from a few japonese(?) sites

i've developed an 'bubbleless' air driven water mover that i'm planning on using. the animals are photopositive which is good in the rotifer department. so i'm thinking of a large cylinder container for rearing.
with a light over top.

the adults are chasing each other again. i think she's gonna moult any time soon, it's been a few days.

i'm getting tired of failure.

 

[kizanne]

Well don't give up. I certainly wouldn't consider what you have done so far a failure.

Next time maybe try keeping just 5 zoa so it is easier to keep enough food.

 

[Coelli]

Yes, please don't give up!!

 

[gogo7]

i thought i'd update this thread. i've gotta day off and a beer in my hand so here goes.


here's the setup i'm currently working with. the two containers are 1.5 litres i think. there's a two ounce container and the smallest container is about an ounce. it has less than a quarter ounce in it with a single zoa. i think the algae on the sides acts as a good filter. that single zoa has been under the scope a couple of times. the rv on the left is decommissioned, half full and has a half dozen zoa in it. i don't feed them, they're on their own. i did sprinkle some artemia cysts on the surface a couple of days ago, basically the dust off of my fingers,

the 1.5 in the front has the higher density of zoa and zooplanktons. the one in the back i've limited feeding and given more wc. i'm being as gentle as i've ever been, using the baster and using dv water for changes. i pass the dv water through the 56 screen. haven't seen any hydroids.
i'm maintaining them at room temp. all zoa seem to be doing fine. and as of this post, we're at 80 ish hph. 24 hour par30 light.

some observations about the zoa. they seem to swim like seahorses. they zip around the water column once in a while grabbing their dorsal spine and then shoot themselves an inch or two forward. i'm not exactly sure what they're eating. they're definitely eating something, ciliates i suspect. i'm limiting the algae in the back container as a bit of an experiment. i thought i'd try less veg, more zooplankton for that batch, although all waters look the same under the scope. 'life finds a way' in my setup. it might also be a zoa density thing.

here's pics of the zoa 72 hph

here's a pic of that 'tail grab' thing they do.

as with all my rearing projects, i'm not holding my breath on this one. just reporting in.

 

[Coelli]

Thanks for the update. If you do eventually successfully rear any, I do think it's possible they may wind up propagating the anemones themselves starting with one from the parents. One of my two crabs lost both anemones after being introduced to the tank but by whatever means obtained one from the other crab and has since split it, so both crabs have two again.

 

[gogo7]

Thanks for the update. If you do eventually successfully rear any, I do think it's possible they may wind up propagating the anemones themselves starting with one from the parents. One of my two crabs lost both anemones after being introduced to the tank but by whatever means obtained one from the other crab and has since split it, so both crabs have two again.

yes, i agree. there's definitely some sharing-stealing going on.
if it ever gets to that point where i have to start farming those things....
oh man.

 

[gogo7]

just an update.
i'm at about a dozen left with day eleven ish. the zoae have started to settle on the bottom of the front container. all the zoae in the rear container perished. under feeding is the clue to that.
they are truly visible to the naked eye and are bright orange. i have no clue as to what they're eating, but they do exhbit hunting behaviour. so it makes sense to give them a clean 'soup' to live in. they seem to chase things on the bottom. my guess is ciliates. i've introduced euplotes and euglenia with drops of all three phytos. the zoae do seem to have 'green' in them. eupotes is a green ciliate so i'm not sure. i'm not going to put anymore under the scope for fear of losing one.
here's one at day six.
it barely fits under the scope.

i'll update this as we go. the female is ready to release the next batch. i'm a little concerned about housing this new upcoming batch. i've still got pistol shrimp (?) zoae going on a week. at least i think they are. they could be hermit crab zoae. i discovered a mysid shrimp colony in my vase and i thought they could be the zoae, but i'm leaning towards pistol-hermit crab.
i'm dreading the coming gobies that i've failed at rearing passed four days. i'm considering another setup dedicated to rearing all these little things.

 

[gogo7]

update.

batch number two happened last night. it was a smaller clutch than last time and it was obvious by her egg cluster.
everything in my vase eats well. but i still feel she might be underfed. i know the male eats well... and because he hangs with the porcelain crab under my turbinara, they both eat very well.
she eats live brine, rotifers, copepods and the odd shrimp pellet. she only hangs at the bottom with the copepods and the mysids. heck, i even have a small mysid colony she could feed on. i'll be paying attention to her feeding habits a bit more now.
the male is staying close to her tonight.
she looks a mess.

there's still two crab zoa left from the last batch. twenty two days. they're in with four shrimp (?)(prolly hermit crab) zoa. i put five more new crab zoa in with them. the twenty two day old is only twice the size of the new zoa. the rest of the new crab zoa are spread out into two 1.5 litre containers. and a few in the old rv. just to see how they do.
ill do some updates later this week.

 

[gogo7]

no babies, but found something interesting to insert here.
at first i thought it was a crab moulting.

then i realised what i was looking at.
the male crab couples with the female when he feels she is going to moult. when she does, he fertilizes her. so in about twelve days or so, i'll be posting another rearing failure.