Poor support/policies
- Thread starter 1sleeper
- Start date
jdieck
New member
Real research is hard work and some time browsing and searching google. The fact is that there is enough information out there to determine if the pumps are equivalent, in this case it is clear they are not:
At 6 ft head the 7 gives 400 gph while the eheim 300 so one is 33% larger than the other at that pressure.
Eheim 1260:
Mag Drive 7:
MD is a big purchaser of aquarium supplies and has the ability to negotiate a certain percentage of returns with their suppliers. Suppliers are used to this and figure it as part of their cost. MD is just being cheap and uncooperative. Find another company to deal with. The net is full of them and some even have lower prices. Bet the Drs F&S will even match MD's price and still give you better service.
On a technical standpoint, I have owned both a Mag7 and an Eheim 1260. The 1260 has a ton more flow than a Mag7 and is far quieter. Others who have owned both have had the same experience. To me, this means either a) your 1260 is defective. b) something in your plumbing setup is very restrictive so that you dont see the improvement. BTW, those graphs are bunk IME.
On MD return polocy, IME, I dont like it. I ran into the probem a couple of times and decided to use a different vendor that has a better customer service.
On MD return polocy, IME, I dont like it. I ran into the probem a couple of times and decided to use a different vendor that has a better customer service.
RobbyG
Active member
I just love how this one just slides past the argument. Here is clear proof that the Mag 7 is indeed a more powerful pump than the ehiem. This is exactly the kind of research one needs to do before making an online purchase.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9303676#post9303676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
Real research is hard work and some time browsing and searching google. The fact is that there is enough information out there to determine if the pumps are equivalent, in this case it is clear they are not:
At 6 ft head the 7 gives 400 gph while the eheim 300 so one is 33% larger than the other at that pressure.
Eheim 1260:
Mag Drive 7:
jdieck
New member
There has been reports of different specifications, one claimed the Ehim being a 620 max flow and 12' max head while others being 600 max flow and 10 Max head.
I really do not know what the diference is but it seems that some of the 1260 were the original 1060s, another difference in the spec may come from the pump being designed to run at European AC under 50 Hz. If running in US current at 60 Hz the pump, although may overheat a little will run at about 20% higher rpm which might account for the ramped up specifications.
In any case when I see dual specs like this and as you do not know what you will get I have to asume that I could get the lower of both.
Now having said that I have run Mags and Eheims on my periferals and I could say that if mounted properly both are noiseless. Quality wise I think the engineering on the Eheims is better but the Mags are constructed like work horses.
Owsi, aside from being a childish taunt, that is one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read. What does someone buying a $200,000 home changing their mind have to do with MD not wanting my possibly defective $130 pump back without hoops and hurdles. I imagine if I had to pay $2000 / 360 months for that eheim that statement wouldn't be so ridiculous or "unbelievable" as you so elequently said in your prior post.
RobbyG, I did my research but the answers were as clear as the discussion here. All users of eheim claimed higher than posted outputs and most recommended the 1260. Do a search for eheim 1260 and you will learn the same as I did. Believe me, this is not a "lack of research" issue. My research habits and thirst for knowledge border obsessive.
Childish taunt, to you, to me people like you make costs go up. Everybody wants somebody else to eat the loss, if you feel its defective send it back, I am sure MD will do the right thing. Whats the difference between a $200K home and a $130 pump, if its not deffective who eats the loss? It gets passed on to the customer base, I don't like you enough to support you mind changeing or not really sure if its deffective costs. I don't buy that much from F&S because they don't carry the things I need and those they do are usualy higher. So please go there and take advantage of thier exchange policies, I'll stick with MD.
Bergovoy
Moved On
Your assumption is that the item is not defective nor living up to its specifications.
It is quite possible that the pump is not performing per its specifications, and that is that. fairly straight forward.
Accountiblity has a price, testing it to determine if it is or isnt defective has a price, losing customers has a price, even making too much profit has a price.
The issue is did the company anticipate sufficient costs for customer issues like this, as a "COST OF DOING BUSINESS"
If they did not anticipate sufficiently this time, they will have the opportunity to adjust that estimate nexst time, assuming they still ahve a customer base, or if they alienated them by trying to avoid a no cost issue and stand on policy
MD is not a mfg, they are a reseller. Ifthey get a return, they return it top the mfg, (or negotiate ex amount of returns as part of thier cost or purchaseof the equipment originally)
It costs them nothing to return the pump to the mfg. It will cost them at least one customer if they try to avoid having to deal with the issue or customer.
It is quite possible that the pump is not performing per its specifications, and that is that. fairly straight forward.
Accountiblity has a price, testing it to determine if it is or isnt defective has a price, losing customers has a price, even making too much profit has a price.
The issue is did the company anticipate sufficient costs for customer issues like this, as a "COST OF DOING BUSINESS"
If they did not anticipate sufficiently this time, they will have the opportunity to adjust that estimate nexst time, assuming they still ahve a customer base, or if they alienated them by trying to avoid a no cost issue and stand on policy
MD is not a mfg, they are a reseller. Ifthey get a return, they return it top the mfg, (or negotiate ex amount of returns as part of thier cost or purchaseof the equipment originally)
It costs them nothing to return the pump to the mfg. It will cost them at least one customer if they try to avoid having to deal with the issue or customer.
30reef
New member
I believe I have spent enough money at MD to keep them going for a while. (many multiple thousands of dollars) In fact, I am awaiting a shipment from them in a few days. I have never had a problem with returns or anything.
I think maybe your pump needs some time to "wear" itself in. And there is the possibility that your plumbing may have something to do with your noise/flow issues. The Ehiem pumps are by far the quietest on the market. I know of some Tunze pumps which were noisy at first, Roger's advice was to let it run for a week or so before condemning it.
As for MD, they have their feet wet in the wholesale end of the business also. Chances are, if you go to your LFS and buy a pump or whatever, they got it from MD...
I think maybe your pump needs some time to "wear" itself in. And there is the possibility that your plumbing may have something to do with your noise/flow issues. The Ehiem pumps are by far the quietest on the market. I know of some Tunze pumps which were noisy at first, Roger's advice was to let it run for a week or so before condemning it.
As for MD, they have their feet wet in the wholesale end of the business also. Chances are, if you go to your LFS and buy a pump or whatever, they got it from MD...
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RobbyG
Active member
I will agree with that, my wife has a store and she just puts the returned items in a sorted pile. When the supplier comes with his next shipment she subtracts the returning items from the Arrivals and pays for the difference. You can of course only do this for a small amount of each item and she also has to know for sure that the item is defective. In this case, yes MD could probably get it changed free of charge but they would be asking the Manufacturer for a favour since the pump does work.
Bergovoy
Moved On
Of course they do. do you think the cost of the product equals manufacturing cost alone??
R&D, Shrinkage, (which by the way is the biggest loss issue), damaged items due to handling or shipping, defective items discovered during mfg with quality control, and somewhere in the mix is discretionary, for customer satisfaction issues.
Again, the cost of the product vs the cost of a lost customer, at some point there is a balance, sometimes it works in thier favor sometimes it dont. Who are you to say they exceeded thier quota or that they could afford one less customer?
that is thier business, thier decision.
But basically, it is common practice for a customer to be able to buy something and be totally satisfied or your money back.
And I dont think this case is just a mtter of a changed mind but rather one that the pump does not meet thier understanding of what it is supposed to be capable of.
And with the lack of indipendent and standardized testing among every pump mfg, and no true way to accurately compare one mfgs performance chart and data compared to another mfgs data, it ultmately comes down to CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.
So, rather then arguing a discretionary or arbitrary decision, you seem to just argue for the sake of arguing.
Your point has been heard, it has been discussed, and the issues are still the same. Each business shouls anticipate ALL costs involved to determine the value of thier product. If they do so porperly, they stand a better chance of covering thier costs in the price of the product.
Alos, it should be noted that only on rare occasions does the cost of the product relate to the cost of the item. Usually the price is determined by what the market will bear to pay fo r that product.
Also, what if the mfg has a run opf bad luck, and thier mfg process screws up and they ruin a very big batch of parts for the pump, (more then they anticipatetd), are they going to increase the costs of teh next batch to compensate for that error? Would they fire the employee that screwed up and typed a +1 instead of a minus 1 into the CNC mill? (and if they do, will they incur more cost training a new employee? and will that also increase the cost of the remaining items?)\
And since yo do not know what the actual cost for mfg and distribution of that product most of your discussion is moot. And to prove that, dont you find it too coincedental that although there are drastically differernt designs in different pumps yet, most pumps cost about the same? Really, how coincedental could it be that the mfg for a mag pump would be comprable to an eheim, or a Dart compared to an iwaki?
So, again, your point is heard, you dont believe that any customer should be able to return any item as long as the item performs close to how it is suggested per it's own marketing literature proposes. And if it is returned for some reason other then that, it will increase the cost of the remaining stock and inventory from the mfg.
In theory you are correct, in reality you are not.
R&D, Shrinkage, (which by the way is the biggest loss issue), damaged items due to handling or shipping, defective items discovered during mfg with quality control, and somewhere in the mix is discretionary, for customer satisfaction issues.
Again, the cost of the product vs the cost of a lost customer, at some point there is a balance, sometimes it works in thier favor sometimes it dont. Who are you to say they exceeded thier quota or that they could afford one less customer?
that is thier business, thier decision.
But basically, it is common practice for a customer to be able to buy something and be totally satisfied or your money back.
And I dont think this case is just a mtter of a changed mind but rather one that the pump does not meet thier understanding of what it is supposed to be capable of.
And with the lack of indipendent and standardized testing among every pump mfg, and no true way to accurately compare one mfgs performance chart and data compared to another mfgs data, it ultmately comes down to CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.
So, rather then arguing a discretionary or arbitrary decision, you seem to just argue for the sake of arguing.
Your point has been heard, it has been discussed, and the issues are still the same. Each business shouls anticipate ALL costs involved to determine the value of thier product. If they do so porperly, they stand a better chance of covering thier costs in the price of the product.
Alos, it should be noted that only on rare occasions does the cost of the product relate to the cost of the item. Usually the price is determined by what the market will bear to pay fo r that product.
Also, what if the mfg has a run opf bad luck, and thier mfg process screws up and they ruin a very big batch of parts for the pump, (more then they anticipatetd), are they going to increase the costs of teh next batch to compensate for that error? Would they fire the employee that screwed up and typed a +1 instead of a minus 1 into the CNC mill? (and if they do, will they incur more cost training a new employee? and will that also increase the cost of the remaining items?)\
And since yo do not know what the actual cost for mfg and distribution of that product most of your discussion is moot. And to prove that, dont you find it too coincedental that although there are drastically differernt designs in different pumps yet, most pumps cost about the same? Really, how coincedental could it be that the mfg for a mag pump would be comprable to an eheim, or a Dart compared to an iwaki?
So, again, your point is heard, you dont believe that any customer should be able to return any item as long as the item performs close to how it is suggested per it's own marketing literature proposes. And if it is returned for some reason other then that, it will increase the cost of the remaining stock and inventory from the mfg.
In theory you are correct, in reality you are not.
Hi Folks,
We appreciate the feedback you have provided us. While our return policies have been sufficient for most of our customers in the past, we realize that changes are needed to accomodate others. We are in the process of reviewing our returns guidelines and the feedback is valuable. As soon as we have the new guidelines set, we will let you know. We work closely with our vendors in providing you all the best products at affordable prices. We also provide as much information as possible online and via phone so returns may not have to happen. As stated by others here, costs will be taken into account when reviewing returns as well as many other factors including customer satisfaction.
Thank you all for your support. We look forward to helping you with any of your hobby needs.
Happy Reefing!
Ben R.
Director of Operations
www.marinedepot.com/ www.marinedepotlive.com
We appreciate the feedback you have provided us. While our return policies have been sufficient for most of our customers in the past, we realize that changes are needed to accomodate others. We are in the process of reviewing our returns guidelines and the feedback is valuable. As soon as we have the new guidelines set, we will let you know. We work closely with our vendors in providing you all the best products at affordable prices. We also provide as much information as possible online and via phone so returns may not have to happen. As stated by others here, costs will be taken into account when reviewing returns as well as many other factors including customer satisfaction.
Thank you all for your support. We look forward to helping you with any of your hobby needs.
Happy Reefing!
Ben R.
Director of Operations
www.marinedepot.com/ www.marinedepotlive.com
RicksReefs
New member
uhhh, no.
no LFS is going to support an online competitor.
JohnnyM2, No, just feel a return policy should be for defects not mood swings. MD would have credited if product was defective, seems the cust. didn't have confidence it was. We all bear the the price of the "New Expectations" in cust service in our society, look at the cost of health insurance, Dr.s are not totaly responcible for the cost, most of your premium goes to malpractice insurance. Retail is the same, cust. service and longer hours have increased overhead/price's. I feel we need to take responcibilty for our actions.
